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India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#481

Post by anonymars »

aa-jv wrote: post #315
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> based on potential future events, you've come to this conclusion No. I'm saying by the goals he set out before the war, he has failed. > You saw his interview on Croatia TV recently? His statements refute your position Putin is sort of like Trump in that he messages multiple messages. We cannot know what is in his mind. But Putin has repeatedly made revanchist nonsense statements about Russia's sphere of influence…

>No. I'm saying by the goals he set out before the war, he has failed. Fine, but what were those goals, where/when did he set them out and what is the current status? I'd like to study this issue myself - so any sources you can provide? >We cannot know what is in his mind. Yet you claim to know, which is why I'm interested - if you don't believe his words, what basis do you have to make the assertion that you know hi…

Oh, I have one for you. The article that the state news media auto-published and then retracted when reality failed to measure up: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240

You can run the original through a translator as it's still archived. https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20...

> Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe of our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a de facto civil war, because now brothers, divided by their belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other - but Ukraine as anti-Russia will no longer exist. Russia is restoring its historical completeness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in all its totality of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had refused this, had allowed the temporary division to become entrenched for centuries, then we would not only have betrayed the memory of our ancestors, but would also have been cursed by our descendants - for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.

Note that referring to Ukrainians as "little Russians" is grossly offensive but fits with the big picture idea (which you can see scattered in this very thread! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43913680) that Ukraine isn't a real country or a separate nationality. This year we have been provided a very easy parallel: the rhetoric that Canada isn't really separate and should just be the 51st state. (What a coincidence!)

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#482

Post by enugu »

lmm wrote: post #452
enugu wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are actually arguing that a country targeted by a terrorist attack does not gain deterrence with a counterstrike relative to letting things go on, then how uniform do you consider this prescription? Should the terror attacks in the US or France not have had a military response? What happens to the incentives of terror groups in response to such a policy? --- The role of money only becomes an issue when conduct…

> Should the terror attacks in the US or France not have had a military response? Probably, yes. Military responses to terrorism are almost always counterproductive. I don't know which specific attacks you're talking about, but the ones I can think of the US did far more damage to itself with the blowback than the original attack ever achieved.

Note that I am not referring to the prolonged occupation of Afghanistan, much less of Iraq here. Rather, something like a strike which targets bin Laden and other organizers of the terrorist attack.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#483

Post by sofixa »

somenameforme wrote: post #473
os2warpman wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He, much like all of military officials in NATO at the time, assumed it was going to be over after they landed in Kiev Military officials knew with no doubt whatsoever that the Ukrainians would fight like hell, and that they were better man-for-man, dollar-for-dollar, than the Russians. NATO officials' first-hand knowledge of the Ukrainian will to fight is why they begged their governments to allow shipments of mate…

As a peer mentioned, the 'Kiev will fall in 3 days' came from Mark Milley (US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time), not Russia. Beyond that, the decision was then near immediately made to lock all men of "fighting age" in the country, prevent them from leaving, and begin mass conscription. This is something that I hope, in the future, will be seen as no less barbaric than slavery. If people want to figh…

> There's many things in this world I would be willing to die for, but a country

> human rights

I see where there is a gap in your understanding. Ukrainians and the Ukrainian army aren't fighting for the abstract concept of a geopolitical entity (the country of Ukraine), they're fighting for their people, culture, language, existence, safety, freedom. Russia is proudly performing a genocide in Ukraine [1], and Putin has already stated that Ukrainians are just misguided Russians.

What do you think a Russian occupation of Ukraine would look like? They're already kidnapping children [1] and indiscriminately murdering and torturing civilians.

Yes, it was horrible that every single man of fighting age was conscripted. But desperate times force desperate measures.

1 - in case you've missed the news, Russia is indeed (without trying to hide it, it's all out in the open, their chief of staff and various ministers have talked about it) kidnapping people and specifically children from Ukraine. Those children are being educated to be good Russian citizens, which is genocide as per the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (to which Russia is a signatory), Article II (e).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-...

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-...

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#484

Post by anonymars »

anonymars wrote: post #481
aa-jv wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No. I'm saying by the goals he set out before the war, he has failed. Fine, but what were those goals, where/when did he set them out and what is the current status? I'd like to study this issue myself - so any sources you can provide? >We cannot know what is in his mind. Yet you claim to know, which is why I'm interested - if you don't believe his words, what basis do you have to make the assertion that you know hi…

Oh, I have one for you. The article that the state news media auto-published and then retracted when reality failed to measure up: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240 You can run the original through a translator as it's still archived. https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20... > Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe of our history, its unnatural…

Here's another short video I always share on this topic, with John McCain laying things out in 2014 after Russia seized Crimea. We're about halfway through his predictions, I'd say. https://youtu.be/HLAzeHnNgR8

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#485

Post by arjun1296 »

nblgbg wrote: post #61

I believe it's mostly overstated. Pakistan is not economically strong enough to participate in a war, and India is not interested either. However, the Modi government wants to project strength. They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. So, they targeted some areas in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK). In response, Pakistan claimed to have shot down four Indian air…

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#486

Post by Tade0 »

niemandhier wrote: post #437
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #23

The bad news: there is some real potential for escalation due to the suspension of the Indus Waters Treaty https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/indias-water... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Waters_Treaty Wasn't there something in the intro of "Mad Max fury road" about water wars?

This is probably the only real dangerous point at the moment. Neither side gains to win much from a conflict, but should India really tamper with the water supply I hope they consult their economists first. Otherwise Pakistan has little choice but instantly commit to a full war. The reason: A significant amount of the food produced in Pakistan directly depends on the water from the river Indus. Even a moderate water…

Ukraine was desperate in 2014, when the Green Men arrived. In 2022 they were already anticipating an invasion, just didn't know when exactly it would occur.

By 2020 they already had Bayraktars and Javelins:

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/defense/ukraine-to-buy-5...

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#487

Post by cake-rusk »

diggan wrote: post #460
cake-rusk wrote: post #457

India said no Pak military targets were hit. If Pakistan downed Indian jets you can bet military targets would have been hit.

According to the submission, this is what India said: > India said it struck nine "terrorist infrastructure" sites, some of them linked to an attack by Islamist militants on Hindu tourists that killed 26 people in Indian Kashmir last month. Four of the sites were in Punjab and five in Pakistani Kashmir, it said. Since you're saying this is a lie, maybe link to some source for this, since the source we currently have…

Pak terrorist infrastructure is not a military target even though they are hand in gloves with the Pak army.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#488

Post by arjun1296 »

enugu wrote: post #369
nblgbg wrote: post #61

I believe it's mostly overstated. Pakistan is not economically strong enough to participate in a war, and India is not interested either. However, the Modi government wants to project strength. They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. So, they targeted some areas in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK). In response, Pakistan claimed to have shot down four Indian air…

> They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. This does not make sense. When France attacked Daesh in 2015 after the terrorist attacks in Paris or when the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11, the objective wasn't to target the exact people who carried out the attacks, but the organization behind the attacks. People can always be found as long as the organization r…

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#489

Post by Guptos »

nblgbg wrote: post #61

I believe it's mostly overstated. Pakistan is not economically strong enough to participate in a war, and India is not interested either. However, the Modi government wants to project strength. They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. So, they targeted some areas in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK). In response, Pakistan claimed to have shot down four Indian air…

I hope this is true

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#490

Post by sofixa »

anticodon wrote: post #344
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The competition to Putin entering Ukraine is obviously ridiculous. Putin had already attacked multiple countries before. Georgia, Chechnya, and leads a vast network of para militaries that are fighting all over Africa as well. Heck, Putin had literally attacked and conquered a whole area of Ukraine itself not even a decade ago. Anyone who was saying Putin would not attack Ukraine either had no knowledge at all about…

> Putin had already attacked multiple countries before. Georgia, Chechnya As always, westerners leave in an information bubble. Chechnya was always a part of Russia. It was a civil war. Ukraine was always a part of Russia until 1991, btw, there was never a separate country called "Ukraine" before 1991 - you can easily find that even in Western history books, although I'm sure they'll be rewritten in some way soon, if…

> As always, westerners leave in an information bubble. Chechnya was always a part of Russia. It was a civil war. Ukraine was always a part of Russia until 1991, btw, there was never a separate country called "Ukraine" before 1991 - you can easily find that even in Western history books, although I'm sure they'll be rewritten in some way soon, if not already.

While this is categorically not true (WWI, the Ukrainian SSR), it's also irrelevant. There wasn't an independent Czechia or Albania either, or Turkey, or Greece, or Italy, or Germany, until there was. Historical non-existence of a state doesn't mean that with the rise of nationalism in the 19th and 20th century those states didn't become entities people wanted to belong to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Ukrainian_langua...

Here's a chronological list of various supressions of the Ukrainian language. There has been a semblance of a Ukrainian identity long before the 1990s.

> Georgia launched attack in 2008, it is easily confirmed by:

Interesting, the timeline does not add up with the independently sourced Wikipedia article on the topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

Is it wrong? Feel free to update it.

> 2. There was an independent EU investigation that also confirmed that Georgia started the attack in 2008.

link?

> "Ukraine burns thousands of Russian tanks and armored vehicles a day: here's a photo proof",

Yeah, where are the Russian battle groups? Where are the modern tanks? Why did last year's 9th of May parade have so few armoured vehicles?

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