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India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

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121–130 of 714 posts

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UAE and KSA have interests, but insufficient influence to force outcomes 2019 is a good example of UAE using it's heft [0][1]. In a couple years we'll probably see leaks in Bloomberg or AJ about KSA doing something similar rn. > India has less motivation for war. But it’s also done nothing to negotiate a peace. Both have worked on reconciliation immediately before some incident arises that causes talks to collapse.…

> 2019 is a good example of UAE using it's heft This is not projecting power, it's the UAE (and Qatar) playing their aspirational roles as the new Davos/Switzerland for diplomacy. Pakistan is definitely more anti-peace than India. But while Islamabad undermines peace, New Delhi is mostly uninterested in it.

> Pakistan is definitely more anti-peace than India. But while Islamabad undermines peace, New Delhi is mostly uninterested in it.

That's a framing I agree with.

> This is not projecting power, it's the UAE (and Qatar) playing their aspirational roles as the new Davos/Switzerland for diplomacy.

Sure, but in India-Pakistan relations, they (UAE and KSA, not Qatar) are increasingly the only mediators with whom both parties can negotiate offramps.

Large pole countries don't have the same heft they may have had 15-20 years ago, and even the Russian-Ukraine War has shown that power differentials are not that significant between major powers and regional powers, and why multilateralism is critical (and a major reason I dislike Trump - I primarily only agree with his tariff policy, nothing else).

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#122
post #71
post #61

I believe it's mostly overstated. Pakistan is not economically strong enough to participate in a war, and India is not interested either. However, the Modi government wants to project strength. They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. So, they targeted some areas in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK). In response, Pakistan claimed to have shot down four Indian air…

Thanks for stating these forecasts so authoritatively. Or maybe we should admit this is uncharted waters and we shouldn't downplay what is possible?

[deleted]

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thats how Us operates: exploits old conflicts for its own immediate benefit, like it did with Ukr-Rus war. This is realpolitik 101, and every powerful society does it. Like, India didn't help sever Bangladesh f/k/a East Pakistan from Islamabad because it was being nice. (I'm not saying every society exploits every old conflict. Just that if you need to do something, you start with extant fault lines. Like, if you'r…

I can understand seizing opportunities in situations like this, however I cannot support instigating and creating these situations in the first place. https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/pakistans-defence-m...

> cannot support instigating and creating these situations in the first place

With all due respect, what you and I support isn’t super relevant to what will happen over the coming weeks.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India wants peace Not really. There are options for a negotiated peace that involves swapping land, specifically, ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan and setting borders along rivers. That's anathema in India because there is broad-based antipathy towards Islamabad, historically, and Muslims, recently.

> involves swapping land, specifically, ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan The sectors on the Indian side where fighting is happening right now in Jammu Division are 50-50 Muslim-Hindu/Sikh. What you are advocating would lead to Yugoslav style ethnic cleansing. > setting borders along rivers It already is that on the LoC, or mountain faces where rivers are not existent.

> What you are advocating would lead to Yugoslav style ethnic cleansing

Yes. When you have a sectarian conflict, the only lasting solution is moving people around. Hateful people don’t learn to stop hating each other. Particularly not when you’re dealing with the levels of education in J&K.

> It already is that on the LoC, or mountain faces where rivers are not existent

And. Having a river with a sectarian cross isn’t useful.

This stuff is hard and controversial. It takes work. My point is nobody is particularly interested in that work versus leaving the region in a low simmer.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pakistan-India conflict is orthogonal to America and China's India is negotiating trade deals and weapons purchases with the West. (Historically, Moscow was its security source.) Pakistan got some F-16s in 2022, but otherwise has been deepending ties with Beijing. It's wild to suggest America's cold war with China is orthogonal to this conflict.

Ask a random Indian in India whether he'd be willing to die for the US. The US and China have interests in the area, so maybe I shouldn't have said the word "orthogonal". But the original commenter said a conflict between India and Pakistan would be a "US-China proxy war". Come on. India and Pakistan have enough reasons to hate each other. They don't need America or China's goading. And neither India nor Pakistan wou…

> Ask a random Indian in India whether he'd be willing to die for the US

Not how proxy wars work.

> India and Pakistan have enough reasons to hate each other. They don't need America or China's goading

Not how proxy wars work. The backers enable. The proxies fight.

> neither India nor Pakistan would accept their conflict being characterized as a US-China war

This is how proxy wars work. They literally don’t if the proxies realise they’re fighting a foreign war on their homeland.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#129
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India wants peace. A peaceful India threatens Pakistan's entire existence as a military state. Therefore, Pakistan keeps instigating with outrageously cruel terrorist attacks. There are no strategic goals here. Either side may recover some vantage points high up in the Himalayas. But that's about it.

> India wants peace Not really. There are options for a negotiated peace that involves swapping land, specifically, ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan and setting borders along rivers. That's anathema in India because there is broad-based antipathy towards Islamabad, historically, and Muslims, recently.

> ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan

Why would India do that? Why would a unilateral surrender of land be considered valid terms for peace?

> swapping land

In a fair swap, what land would Pakistan offer in exchange?

> Muslims, recently

Pakistan doesn't have a stellar reputation for treatment of its Muslim minorities (Ahmediyyas, Ismailis) and non-Punjabi muslims (Balochis, Pasthuns, once-Pakistani-Bengalis). I'm inclined to consider India a safer nation for most muslim denominations.

____

Note: Pakistan's historic terror attacks have been deep in India soil (Mumbai, Delh). There is no indication that they'd maintain peace with India if they gained control over Kashmir.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#130
post #128

A few months ago, I stopped reading random news and decided to stick only to Hacker News. But now, even Hacker News is filled with random content. I guess there's no escaping the news these days.

I logged odd Twitter and can only access it through an eink device. I am much saner now.

I really enjoy reading the community here chime in on current events, but I also lament that I can't shield my online consumption from the news.

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