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give me one such citizen. Just one.
ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
581–590 of 908 posts
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#582Earlier quoted context omitted.
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” This seems pretty clear to me. How else could you interpret it?
The entire interpretation of that amendment turns on this phrase: >and subject to the jurisdiction thereof And if you go back and read what the drafters of that amendment stated they meant on the floor of congress, they did not intend it to mean Jus soli. The idea was so ridiculous at the time that no one thought it worth writing it down. Pity. The controlling Supreme Court case spends a lot of time talking about Eng…
Do you have more info about what they said they meant?
Certainly that clause has weight. It excludes diplomats, members of occupying armies, and members of Native tribes. But it seems strange to apply it to others, unless you’re also going to say that they have immunity from our laws as well.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#583Let's do a time warp. It's 2018. Children are being separated from their parents and kept in cages[1]. It's really important to notice that the pictures in this article are not from reporters, leaks or anything of the sort. They were released by Customs and Border Protection and, no doubt, make things look better than they were. What has changed since Trump's first term? Yes, there is now a stronger sensitivity to se…
Let's do another time warp. It's 2000, Bill Clinton is about to wrap up his second term and has deported more people in that term than any president ever at nearly 7,000,000 deportations. Trump barely had 2,000,000 deportations in his first term. Trump's first term was the lowest level of deportations for any administration since Carter. Obama, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton and Biden all deported more people every ter…
Saying "there is no such thing as a perfect process" when discussing the unconstitutional deportation of LITERAL American citizens on an overnight, including a child with cancer deprived of medication, isn't a reasonable position. It's an attempt to normalize extreme rights violations.
> Remigration is an ugly business, but it has to happen if you want to live in a sovereign nation under the rule of law.
god, what enemies do you have?? I don't know how you go from "give them due process" to "the west has fallen" unless you mean restricting migration by law, which Biden proposed and Trump rejected last year. I'm actually curious - are you aware of that law? Did you hear about it?
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#584Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have misunderstood what it means to follow the law. The law guarantees liberties, but doesn't guarantee prosecution. Obama has DACA, which gives young illegal immigrants a deferral on their prosecution. More generally there's the concept of prosecutorial discretion. Have you ever for example driven a car badly, been pulled over, but the cop let you off with just a warning?
Surely you understand the difference between a cop declining to issue a speeding ticket and a federal "discretionary" policy that makes it de facto legal to violate standing immigration law at scale.
There is no difference. People often complain during the pandemic that the San Francisco police department has seemingly instituted a "discretionary" policy that makes it de facto legal to violate traffic law at scale, you know, including speeding, not stopping at stop signs, not yielding to pedestrians. https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_f...
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#585I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people fra…
It's many different things, but scale and time horizon is certainly one of them. The scale of immigration over just the last 30 years is truly unprecedented, and will have political impacts for the next 50. The share of the population that is foreign born is up to 15% (likely much higher, since it's difficult to actually count illegal immigrants), which is the first time since the mid 19th century it's reached that level. Qualitatively, seeing e.g. a childhood neighborhood turn into something that resembles a (very) foreign country is ... jarring. I'd also submit that your brief summary of American history is wrong, and is part of the problem. It very slyly changes the foundation of the nation from something heroic to something that we should be ashamed of, and that mass immigration is the only way to do penance for that sin. It's fine to advocate for people coming here to seek a better life, but it's wrong to describe America as a "nation of immigrants", when the reality is closer to a "nation of settlers" who built up a largely empty country. I also tend to roll my eyes when people invoke "Islamophobia", since the United States is a) not a Muslim country and therefor does not have to defer to Islamic interests, and b) that term is typically invoked in an attempt to bully someone into agreeing with a more extreme position since, well, you don't want to be Islamophobic now do you.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#586Earlier quoted context omitted.
Either the technicalities matter, or our legal system runs on vibes. I think it is important.
Our legal system has always depended on vibes to mitigate technically correct unjust or catastrophic outcomes. It's broadly labelled "prosecutorial discretion", and operates at every level of the justice system. IMHO, it's essential.
Good vibes, or bad vibes? The technicalities of the law keep both in check. Vibes don't just allow us to "mitigate technically correct unjust...outcomes" - they also let people in power "mitigate technically correct just...outcomes" to achieve their own desired ends.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#587Earlier quoted context omitted.
Serious question: how did you envision "wide-scale deportations" playing out, prior to these events?
Good question. I still think it's unfair for these people to stay here, when legal refugees spent waiting years or decades for permission to enter often in bad conditions in refugee camps. The issue here is officials keep rounding up students on legal visas and parents who’ve lived here for years—exactly the people the article labels “families who had lived in the United States for years and had deep ties to their co…
So basically you came to the same conclusion as everyone else who is against this (and who I assume you would consider to be your political opponents): that even though it sounds good and reasonable on paper (as a populist concept), in practice it is invariably used for arbitrary exercise of power.
Here is the thing: hard and complex problems require hard and complex solutions, but you chose to put in power the people who like easy solutions. I hope it’s never late to learn a lesson.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#588Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the most common of human mistakes is to think that because something is easy to say, it is easy to do. Once you actually dig in to how to accomplish something you find the devil in the details and complexity in places you didn't realized it exists. I would not believe someone is an experienced programmer unless they understand this idea in their bones. I think so many people here, with the benefit of hindsigh…
I strongly disagree with your framing. Yes, policies can have unintended consequences and immigration policy in particular is a minefield of obvious solutions having terrible results... But that's not what we're talking about. When OP says "I was for wide-scale deportations until I saw people I like being deported", it's not a case of unintended consequences, it's a case of "When I voted for the leopard party I didn'…
> When I voted for the leopard party I didn't think the leopards would eat the faces of people I like
This isn't a good-faith interpretation of their comment.
There are plenty of illegal immigrants with a criminal record. Trump's pitch was to deport them. There was also a pitch that strongly hinted at deporting basically anyone who isn't white, and I think this appealed to the racist fifth of Americans [1], but plenty of people were messaged the first part with the second being segregated to rallies, NewsMax, Twitter, et cetera.
[1] https://www.splcenter.org/resources/stories/poll-finds-suppo...
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#589Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are really twisting things to make your argument sound plausible in the general case. More supply means less wages. Why focus on low paying jobs? Are you seriously suggesting that if we import every software engineer from India that wants to come here that my salary will increase? If so, that's very interesting why tech CEOs are lobbying so hard for this.
Your "more supply equals lower wages" argument is demolished by top economic research. A recent NBER study calculated that "immigration, thanks to native-immigrant complementarity and college skill content of immigrants, had a positive and significant effect between +1.7 to +2.6% on wages of less educated native workers" between 2000-2019. The economy isn't zero-sum. As Milton Friedman noted, "most economic fallacies…
Nowhere in the economic research does it explain what you are so confidently stating, that wages are, somehow, the only thing in all of economics where positive supply shocks do not matter. The arguments that tend to be made are that, on a long enough time horizon, mean wages increase because overall economic output goes up, and mean economic output goes up because there is a higher supply of available labor.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#590Earlier quoted context omitted.
C-f "citizenship"—55 results C-f "metastatic cancer"—1 There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. What g…
>There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. People like to blame these sort of situations on leadership…
Every individual involved in this is doing it because there is something to be gained. The system is basically saying “the more you deport, the more numbers you generate, the more funding you get and the less I will check what you do with it”. We can blame the individuals sure, but if they keep getting showered with money for doing the wrong thing, of course the system has a big responsibility. Why should the people involved not do this if they are being explicitly encouraged by their employer to do it?