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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#461

Post by TacticalCoder »

nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

> Is that really important to the broader conversation?

The broader conversation is simple: there's an estimated 10 million illegals (low ball estimate, some go as far as 22 million) in the US, what should be done?

For if the numbers are really that gigantic, there are going to be a few revolting cases when people are getting expulsed.

Dems have been hard at work, for many years, funding ONGs with US taxpayers dollars, ONGs that'd actively facilitate and help millions and millions of border crossing and relocating illegals all across the US.

It certainly feels a bit like now is payback time: this may be one of the reason Trump won... US citizens being fed up with that "border" that was basically a wide-open highway.

I want to go live to the US: I raised my kid for ten years in english, she's only ever been to english-speaking schools. But as a non-US citizen I can't. We can't come to the U.S. $5m to buy the golden visa is a bit steep.

That's the broader conversation: close to 2 billion in africa, 1.5 billion chinese, 1.3 billion Indian many of whom (for a variety of reason) want to leave their country. For the EU. For the US. Some europeans, like me, who want to go to the US too.

Can the U.S. take them all? Every single one of them that wants to go to the US?

If there are 8 digits number of illegals, something has to be done.

You ain't dealing with 8 digits number of illegals without having a few "revolting" cases.

And of course leftist media and orgs (like the ACLU) are going to carefully pick their fight, here's an headline that'd be frontpage:

"Trans autistic mixed-race dwarf sick kid forced to leave the US".

Calling a majority of EU and US citizens "nazis" because they're fed up with uncontrolled, illegal, migration ain't intellectually honest.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#462

Post by shadowgovt »

somenameforme wrote: post #30
clusterfook wrote: post #2

> But for interesting HN discussion... anyone got any juice on why this is happening. Is there orders going down the chain of command from the president to do this sort of thing. Was this behaviour always there but less reported before? Are they more emboldened by the current environment?

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

> also a complete slap in the face to the millions of people who try to migrate legally and are refused entry.

Yeah, it sounds like a completely unworkable situation.

If only there was some way to make it easier for people to stay in the United States with much relaxed concern about their citizenship status or documentation.

... Oh wait, we could just do that. Because it's our laws, which means it's rules for a game we made up for ourselves. The universe does not care about the lines drawn on a map. People do. If the lines drawn on a map and the separation of human beings across those lines is becoming painful... Maybe we stop hurting ourselves?

We could care less. We did care less in the past. It seemed to work pretty well.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#463

Post by bodiekane »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #441
nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

What’s the conversation? Separating kids from parents or deporting them with parents because we don’t want them to be separate? There is no question about breaking the law by parents. Question is do you let children be with their mothers(who apparently asked to do so) or no. As someone who came legally to Canada and went through thorough screening of 4 years before coming I just don’t get how people are ok with “chea…

> just don’t get how people are ok with “cheaters” gaming the system.

This is a story about citizens being deported without due process, without access to lawyers, without access to healthcare.

You don't have to be "ok with cheaters" to still want those people to have basic human rights and to see the system have legitimate judicial review.

The punishment here is far worse than the crime, and it's directed at children who didn't commit the crime, and it was doled out in a horrifyingly abusive totalitarian police-state style. Maybe you're not seeing things from the right side?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#464

Post by intermerda »

umvi wrote: post #445
int0x29 wrote: post #398

And one child deported without cancer meds. At that point you are just trying to kill people

I don't think it's intentional, but rather collateral damage from trying to do deportations quickly and at the "millions" scale

It's intentional. The cruelty is the point.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#465

Post by wat10000 »

mc32 wrote: post #427
tomrod wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of which is the US,and would require a constitutional amendment to change.

Rather a different interpretation of the XIV. It was intended for slaves and the children of slaves (there were few non-British foreigners in the US) at the time. However, over time, it was interpreted to mean anyone not only the descendants of slaves/ex-slaves). That could very well be re-interpreted.

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

This seems pretty clear to me. How else could you interpret it?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#466

Post by mystraline »

wat10000 wrote: post #386
Waterluvian wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel more disgusted by the Americans who know this is wrong but do nothing. I have no patience for evil people, but the truly damned are all the Americans who know and sense better but do not or cannot act properly. If deporting U.S. CITIZEN CHILDREN does not send you to the streets with fire and fury, you are well and truly lost. So much damn talk over the decades I've been alive about patriotism and liberty from…

It’s worse than that. Far too many of us want this stuff. I understand the basic idea of how you fight an oppressive regime everyone hates. I have no idea how you go about fighting one that half the country supports. Protests aren’t going to fix that. Last time around, I could at least soothe myself with the idea that he only won because our electoral system is idiotic, and a lot of voters didn’t understand what they…

> I understand the basic idea of how you fight an oppressive regime everyone hates. I have no idea how you go about fighting one that half the country supports. Protests aren’t going to fix that.

In reality, around 22% of the US populace (not just voters, but everyone) voted for Trump. Similar voted for Harris.

The rest didn't vote. I refuse to attribute justifications, since they are too numerous.

But that is correct, peaceful protests like 50501 aren't going to do much. Their value is more networking and mutual aid creation/management.

What does work, especially historically, is violence. As a historian, when you look at pivotal points in history, changes were only won after a LOT of violence was applied.

The trick is that groups like 50501 are absolutely needed for a different reason. The governments cannot negotiate with 'terrorists', but can save face by negotiating with 'peaceful groups'. We see this recently with MLK and Malcolm X, Sinn Fein and IRA, Ghandi and dozens of separatist factions.

I'm not publically advocating violence, but the more fascist they become, well, that will be inevitable. Different people and groups have different lines in the sand.

We're already talking about breaching medical records for 'defectives' (autism) list, turning trans folk into non-humans, kidnapping/disappearing people off the street, tattle-tale emails and phone#s to report people, lebensraum (Canada, Greenland, etc), off-country concentration camps (CECOT), and more. And we're only 3 months in of 4 years.

If I had the ability to get out, I would have. But I'm guessing that even the better off here also don't have the ability.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#467

Post by darksaints »

gradus_ad wrote: post #365
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

[flagged]

I sincerely hope people like you get sent to a Salvadoran torture gulag the next time you drive over the speed limit. Because we absolutely understand no circumstances can afford a breakdown in the rule of law.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#468

Post by andsoitis »

AIPedant wrote: post #241
andsoitis wrote: post #84

While the 3 minors are US citizens, their parents are not and the parents can be deported because they are in the country illegally. That means you have the following options: a) deport nobody, i.e. you don't apply the law b) deport just the parents. What do you do with the minor children? Separating them from their parents (different countries) would be cruel. c) deport the entire family, including the US minors. Si…

"you don't apply the law" is a really dishonest way of phrasing this, when "hit them with a small financial penalty for the civil immigration violation and fast-track their green cards" is also an option. Illegally immigrating to the US is a civil violation, not a criminal one, and far less of a threat to US safety than going 5mph over the speed limit or running red lights. It is entirely lawful for the executive and…

> Illegally immigrating to the US is a civil violation, not a criminal one

It can be both, depending on the situation:

• First-time illegal entry into the U.S. (like crossing the border without inspection) is a criminal misdemeanor under federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1325).

• Unlawful presence (like overstaying a visa) is usually a civil violation, not criminal. It can lead to deportation but not criminal charges.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#469

Post by watwut »

perihelions wrote: post #395
nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

C-f "citizenship"—55 results C-f "metastatic cancer"—1 There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. What g…

Not all of those adults have good intentions. In fact, situation happened because of adults who have bad intentions, managed to execute them and are happy about the result.

And they have been giving benefit of the doubt too many times already. At this point, it is absurd to pretend there are good intentions in the core of this.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#470

Post by Terr_ »

tomrod wrote: post #440
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THe FBI/ICE sure cam after a judge that helped an illegal immigrant. I'm sure the FBI/ICE is using the same zeal to go after employers who helped them.

I'm a bit hazy on the story, but wasn't ICE interfering with her court?

And without any (actual, real, judicial) warrant.

So in principle not that different from a biker gang that claims they "just want to talk to" someone who just finished being a witness.

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