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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#531

Post by southernplaces7 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #206
southernplaces7 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't like this kind of response because it's basically kind of an assumption, and you don't really give any evidence for it. Whether you like it or not, it has indeed been happening for a long time, and under multiple administrations from either party. If you're interested in the tragedy of it all enough to care, then go look these cases up instead of first accusing someone of lying because they might be smearing…

This is like the third or fourth response I've seen that keeps making the same assertion with no evidence to back up their position. So I'll be very clear on what I think is new and not just "more of the same": 1. The deliberate attempts to deny due process by scheduling deportations before filed writs can be responded to in court. 2. The deportation of US minor citizen children as a matter of policy . If you have an…

>If you have any evidence of the above by non-Trump administrations, again as a matter of policy, I'm all ears. Everything else is just "feels".

I assume you know how to use the internet, so please go do a few searches, on Google or the search system of your choice, for the sake of informing yourself better. They're there, and if you care about the subject enough to make claims, you should be aware of wider history.

Illegal actions, whether by policy or by bureaucratic inertia towards authoritarian tendencies, have been the case under multiple previous administrations. Under Obama these were even (in a very different context) taken to the level of outright killing American citizens without due process via drone strike. Under Bush II, they involved very illegal and repeated acts of "extraordinary" rendition to black sites. There are more examples, many involving deportations.

Trump getting attention for things that have also been the case since before him poses the risk of making people think that it will all be okay if they just get rid of Trump, even if it's good that the attention is at least being given to this finally.

None of this is to defend the Trump administration or ICE. The cases documented in the link in this post are grotesque, and deserve the full force of censure by other branches of government and the public, and the media, but that doesn't excuse simplistic examinations of a wider injustice.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#532

Post by roughly »

shadowgovt wrote: post #471
roughly wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parents pass on the shared history, values, and national culture to their kids. Except our nation’s shared history, values, and national culture is that we’re a nation of immigrants, a melting pot of global cultures, a refuge for those in need, and a place where anyone can come to seek their fortune, so obviously American parents haven’t been passing on those values to their children if we’re still having this deba…

To be blunt, America's children are getting a lot more of their shared cultural values from Bluey than their parents, so I think we could stand to pump the brakes on concern about whether children born in this country are as American as children born in this country to parents who were born in this country. That way lies a very ugly argument about who is enough on the team. One that almost nobody who thinks themselve…

As maybe my favorite Twitter dunk of all time goes - “Ah yes, Jack Posobiec, of the Mayflower Posobiecs.”

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#533

Post by cycrutchfield »

kj4211cash wrote: post #504
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US hospitals do not have magical pixie dust to grant US citizenship. This is why birthright as a legal concept is a diminishment of citizenship for all those who hold it. Parents pass on the shared history, values, and national culture to their kids. Parents are those who give value to US citizenship. Not coming out of a belly, that happens to be inside a US hospital.

Do you really believe this? I've never met anyone opposed to birthright citizenship for the US. Our shared history, values, and national culture are all about immigration so this isn't computing for me. Plus the law seems settled on this issue, or at least was before Trump 2.0. I genuinely don't understand how thinking people can support the current administration's policies on numerous issues. Tried going to r/conse…

It’s pretty easy to understand, you only need to look at which subset of immigrants they have a problem with. There’s one commonality with all of them, and it is (so to speak) only skin-deep.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#534

Post by [deleted] »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #176
somenameforme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

First, the US needs to resolve its issue of citizenship. It has been proposed that the US citizenship model was always like the Swiss model - you could only be a citizen if you were born of at least 1 citizen (naturalized or otherwise). For reasons I'm not clear, this has not been strictly enforced for some time. Instead we defaulted to "anyone born in a US hospital is a citizen" Then, as welfare, lack of law enforce…

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#535

Post by generalizations »

usernomdeguerre wrote: post #448
generalizations wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> rely on immediate emotional values....Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist > considered unspeakably cruel You're not disagreeing on any pragmatic basis, just the emotional one. Like I said.

They gave you a whole list of pragmatic policy differences, are you ignoring them or in agreement?

No, they gave a list of policy differences - and justified them with an emotional argument: "cruel". They said nothing about the pragmatic justification of them. Which is exactly my point: the left tends to operate on ideological emotional values.

They could have said things like 'reproductive rights leads to X goods for the populace' or 'prohibition was a net positive in Y ways' or 'minimum wage laws are shown to improve GDP by Z amt on average' - but they didn't. They used an emotional argument. Like I said they would.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#536

Post by timewizard »

ridgeguy wrote: post #378
generalizations wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either the technicalities matter, or our legal system runs on vibes. I think it is important.

Our legal system has always depended on vibes to mitigate technically correct unjust or catastrophic outcomes. It's broadly labelled "prosecutorial discretion", and operates at every level of the justice system. IMHO, it's essential.

> has always depended on vibes

Jury trials do. Administrative trials never have.

> It's broadly labelled "prosecutorial discretion",

Federal DAs win 98% of their cases. This discretion is not what you think it is.

> IMHO, it's essential.

Well, unless they're J6 defendants, or any other group labeled by the media as undesirable.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#537

Post by tzs »

bko wrote: post #493
tzs wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's about non-citizen immigrants. What does it have to do with deporting US citizens without due process?

Dishonest phrasing. The children were the US citizens. Parents were in US illegally. They deported the parents and their kids along with them. Should they go into foster care instead?

First of all, that is not correct. In one of the cases one parent was also a US citizen.

Second, even if in all cases the parents were not citizens it does matter because the US citizen child's due process rights were not respected.

> They deported the parents and their kids along with them. Should they go into foster care instead?

There should be a hearing for the US citizen child to determine what to do with them. Even if both parents have to leave there may be other relatives in the US legally who would be happy to care for the child.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#538

Post by rsfern »

andsoitis wrote: post #457
fnordpiglet wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that’s not the situation here and you left a key option out. D) the child remains with the legally resident / citizen parent or their immediate families In these cases they have legally resident parents, just not the one who the child was with when snatched without due process. They’re being denied the ability to coordinate the handoff of the child to the other parent or family who can take responsibility. ICE…

> In these cases they have legally resident parents, just not the one who the child was with when snatched without due process. Is that true? I re-read the article (but didn’t google for other sources), but nowhere could I see that definitively stated. It would be interesting if the deportable mother of one of these minors (e.g. the one who is pregnant) decided to leave them with other family in the US rather than st…

In the case of the two year old who was removed with their mother, they have US citizen family that the father is trying to transfer custody (it seems he doesn’t have legal status, but I haven’t seen a definitive source)

PDF: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.21...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#539

Post by timewizard »

intermerda wrote: post #460
pyuser583 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don’t trust the press. A lot of these technicalities are parsing “what did the press actually say” which is the first step in dealing with an untrustworthy source of truth.

The distrust of the press has been cultivated intentionally. A POTUS saying "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening" would have been seen too farcical for a comedy. And yet here we are.

> The distrust of the press has been cultivated intentionally.

Yea, by the press itself, or, do you honestly believe the billionaire owner class of this form of media has done an excellent job reporting truthfully over the past 30 years?

Pull yourself back from your politics and genuinely consider this.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#540

Post by lostdog »

gradus_ad wrote: post #365
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

[flagged]

February 29th, 2027, the so called "Hacker News" is declared a criminal and illegal site. The wartime powers delegated to the Supreme President allow him to imprison domestic enemies and remove them. Gradus_ad is right in the middle of explaining the difference between "begging" and "panhandling" to the hobo he is harrassing, when disguised agents grab him off the street for commenting on a criminal site. He is whisked off to a correction facility in Hungary (it is now illegal for this publication to call them "gulags") and never heard from again. Luckily the agents who disappeared him say everything was handled legally!
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