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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#451

Post by neilv »

Waterluvian wrote: post #377
whoknowsidont wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're a sheltered suburbanite nerd (yeah, even the "rural" ones) who will never have to truly worry about being in this situation, this is just an exciting news story to squabble over and smugly flounder about on your keyboard. Deplorable.

I feel more disgusted by the Americans who know this is wrong but do nothing. I have no patience for evil people, but the truly damned are all the Americans who know and sense better but do not or cannot act properly. If deporting U.S. CITIZEN CHILDREN does not send you to the streets with fire and fury, you are well and truly lost. So much damn talk over the decades I've been alive about patriotism and liberty from…

Additional reasons for inaction:

1. They don't know what they can do that will be effective.

2. They don't want to be targeted as dissidents or non-loyalists to the regime.

3. They're drained by their individual economic situations and worries.

4. They're drained by severe disappointment in large swaths of the electorate, and in the failure of checks and balances.

5. Events are so upsetting that they're in denial or consciously avoiding it.

It might be reassuring to see huge protests, but I wouldn't encourage individuals to do that anymore, because most of those people will be identified by the various surveillance technologies that we've built. (Half of the surveillance built by techbros, incidentally.) The identified can then be further suppressed with automation, and the barriers to doing that are much lower than mass physical roundups and concentration camps.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#452

Post by Terr_ »

afavour wrote: post #76
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

Difficult to describe them as choosing to do anything: > ICE held the families incommunicado, refusing or failing to respond to multiple attempts by attorneys and family members to contact them. In one instance, a mother was granted less than one minute on the phone before the call was abruptly terminated when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number. What would they do, leave their child in an ICE fa…

Especially when the same politicians and agencies pushing the whole cruel scheme have a past history of permanently losing hundreds of children. [0]

"Leave your 2-year-old with the angry government man who will totes ensure they are reunited with your spouse" is not a choice that exists.

[0] https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/16/us-lasting-harm-family-s...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#453

Post by darksaints »

koolba wrote: post #361
blinky81 wrote: post #354

I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people fra…

> I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I have no issue with legal immigration. Far from it, I’m in favor of attracting the best, brightest, and most hard…

They deported a US Citizen. A child. Kept from contact from her US Citizen father.

If that’s the sort of way that you believe we should treat legal immigrants, you have no basis to claim any support for them.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#454

Post by s1artibartfast »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #402
s1artibartfast wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the rhetoric that drove the country to this point. They are here illegally. They can exist elsewhere legally. Respect for law is critical, and valorizing the breaking it undermines the very concept of society. If you want more immigration, work to increase legal quotas and update the law.

If respect for the law is critical, why is this administration and ICE ignoring and actively working to evade court orders?

They shouldn't be, and we should work to hold everyone accountable to the laws.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#455

Post by wat10000 »

47282847 wrote: post #425
wat10000 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by “only a few” you mean “almost every country in the Americas, plus some more.”

Yes. As per the article, 33 countries. Of ~195 in total. Or, in population: 13%.

“A few” means, like, 3-5.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#456

Post by cyberax »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #204
whimsicalism wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's remind ourselves of the text of the 14th amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” > It has been proposed that the US citizenship model was always like the Swiss model - you could only be a citizen if you were born of at least 1 citizen (naturalized or otherwise). For reasons…

IANAL, but interpretation of: "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" seems critical to make a determination on whether you are correct or not. Take the act of a random french spy who goes to the UK for the purpose of defecting, without express permission of either government. Does that make him a subject to the UK crown? I think the historical outcome of such situation would be crystal-clear.

> "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"

It means that the parents must be immune from the US government actions. For example, if they are diplomats and literally can't be arrested even if they commit a murder in the plain sight.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#457

Post by andsoitis »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #159
andsoitis wrote: post #84

While the 3 minors are US citizens, their parents are not and the parents can be deported because they are in the country illegally. That means you have the following options: a) deport nobody, i.e. you don't apply the law b) deport just the parents. What do you do with the minor children? Separating them from their parents (different countries) would be cruel. c) deport the entire family, including the US minors. Si…

Except that’s not the situation here and you left a key option out. D) the child remains with the legally resident / citizen parent or their immediate families In these cases they have legally resident parents, just not the one who the child was with when snatched without due process. They’re being denied the ability to coordinate the handoff of the child to the other parent or family who can take responsibility. ICE…

> In these cases they have legally resident parents, just not the one who the child was with when snatched without due process.

Is that true? I re-read the article (but didn’t google for other sources), but nowhere could I see that definitively stated.

It would be interesting if the deportable mother of one of these minors (e.g. the one who is pregnant) decided to leave them with other family in the US rather than stay together as a family, but it is of course her right to make such a decision.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#458

Post by wat10000 »

mc32 wrote: post #432
wat10000 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by “only a few” you mean “almost every country in the Americas, plus some more.”

I've known children of US citizens who were presumed Americans though having been born in a south American country. Government kicked them all out for being personae non grata Americans --children not excepted.

What’s your point? Other countries also engage in lawlessness to remove people they don’t like?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#459

Post by UncleMeat »

rsyring wrote: post #203
elmerfud wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last statement is correct. They are just emboldened by the current political environment. Any law enforcement has a problem where all they see is criminals all day everyday, now we know they aren't always criminals, but that's their view point. There should be sufficient checks and balances to ensure that due process is still upheld. What we're seeing now is the lack of checks because law enforcement feels they…

Without qualified immunity, no one in their right mind would want to work in law enforcement. LE would become an easy target for malicious litigation where the cost/effort to defend would, itself, be the weapon, regardless of whether or not the lawsuits were won. LE personnel would have to get insurance, like doctors, which would be crazy expensive and, considering their pay scale, unaffordable. I don't like some of…

Colorado very strongly limited qualified immunity for state cops. There are still state cops there.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#460

Post by intermerda »

pyuser583 wrote: post #414
nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

Americans don’t trust the press. A lot of these technicalities are parsing “what did the press actually say” which is the first step in dealing with an untrustworthy source of truth.

The distrust of the press has been cultivated intentionally. A POTUS saying "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening" would have been seen too farcical for a comedy. And yet here we are.
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