351–360 of 908 posts
Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?
Deplorable.
1. This behavior, whether legal or not, is profoundly inhumane.
2. No law, statute, or rule requires us to treat anyone inhumanely. The people behaving this way are doing it because they want to. These are not people you want to have access to any power.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> The only Orwellian thing is she was lied to by Democrats that she could lead a safe life in the US. That’s on you. This cannot be overstated. I wish I had a thousand up votes to give you. Democrats made a promise they knew would never hold up just for the votes. Now the chickens are coming home to roost and these people who were lied to by Democrats are the ones paying the price.
It’s OK for a citizen to lose their rights if a political party exists that espouses views you don’t agree with and it’s possible someone related to that citizen may (or may not) have listened to those views?
I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people frame what’s happening as if it’s the first time this country has gone through this. There is a long and storied tradition of otherizing, deporting, and imprisoning. Going back to our very foundation — America was born out of a process of expelling Native people from their lands. Then there’s the Great Migration period and the intense reaction to it, the Palmer raids, FDR’s internment camps, Eisenhower’s deportations, McCarthy era “anti-communism”, mass incarceration as a reaction to the Civil Rights Act, Islamophobia, and now this aggressively right wing anti-immigration sentiment.
The people of America, unfortunately, are prone to drastically evil actions when they are tricked by opportunistic political actors into believing their way of life is somehow under attack. This cycle has been going on for a long time.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"U.S Born" == "U.S Citizenship" would be the default assumption of any rational, thinking person. You can add more words to say the same thing but it only ends up being annoying.
Less than half the population of the world live in birthright citizenship countries. Such countries as all of Eurasia except Pakistan, and all but a handful of African countries. Do those countries not have rational thinking people?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
AI is not a reliable source for legal matters. There are so many examples of it making up precedent it’s basically a meme at this point. Posting its response is not helpful. I’d have thought hacker news contributors would understand that.
If what chatgpt said is incorrect, I would love to know. Are you not interested in the legal details of these cases so we know what can be fought under current law and not? The cruelty of the actions should be judged harshly, and in the longer run we need to reform immigration law so they are not possible, but knowing what can currently be fought legally matters to me.
"Everyone else do my work for me, and by default I'm right!!!!"
You cannot be serious. Bullshit-asymmetry principle on grand display right here.
I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people fra…
All people are like this. When the economic prospects for you look bleak, it's very aggravating to see someone you believe is an outsider is succeeding. We see microcosms of this in the bay area where people blame tech workers for driving the cost of living up and making it hard for regular people. In reality, housing policy has done that, but people get mad seeing new outsiders enjoying the life that has become harder and harder for them to afford.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The phrase "solely one of birthright" suggests the diminishment of the citizenship of certain people. That is not how citizenship works: no one is less of a citizen than anyone else. The most objectionable part here — by far — is not the deportation of the parents, but the deportation of citizens and the lack of due process. The alternative being proposed is that if ICE is going to deport the parents of US citizen ch…
US hospitals do not have magical pixie dust to grant US citizenship. This is why birthright as a legal concept is a diminishment of citizenship for all those who hold it. Parents pass on the shared history, values, and national culture to their kids. Parents are those who give value to US citizenship. Not coming out of a belly, that happens to be inside a US hospital.
Except our nation’s shared history, values, and national culture is that we’re a nation of immigrants, a melting pot of global cultures, a refuge for those in need, and a place where anyone can come to seek their fortune, so obviously American parents haven’t been passing on those values to their children if we’re still having this debate, and I think the only fair response to that is to deport all the children who don’t meet your standards of citizenship, by which I mean the entire cohort that’s arguing all this is OK.
The purpose of this evil is to spread fear, provoke a response and get publicity, push and prod the system for weakness/loyalty, condition their supporters to accept these atrocities as normal and necessary, and to communicate the blueprint by example, as it gets repeatedly acted out in public. The message is this is how we're operating, so if anything looks weird to you, trust the plan because we're on the same team…