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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#621

Post by s1artibartfast »

Jtsummers wrote: post #112
kemayo wrote: post #16

> He accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. It sounds like the arrest isn't because of any official act of the judge, but rather over them either not telling the ICE agents where the person was or giving them the wrong information about their location. There are some pretty broad law…

> I.e. the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could interrupt proceedings. The judge then didn't stop the defendant from leaving once the proceeding was done. Since there were multiple agents (the reports and Patel's post all say "agents" plural) they could have left one at the courtroom, or outside, rather than a…

The claim is different. Agents with an arrest warrant waited in the public hallway, as asked and required by the judges.

The judge skipped the hearing for the target and [directed] them out a private back door in an attempt to prevent arrest, leading to a foot chase before apprehension.

Edit: directed, not escorted

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#623

Post by Gabriel54 »

rolph wrote: post #559
Gabriel54 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supreme Court precedent is that states cannot be compelled by Congress to enforce Immigration law (see: Printz v. United States). So the supreme court struck a reasonable compromise between federal and state interests. I am not a lawyer, but I am certain that this precedent does not give states the right to actively obstruct federal agents from doing their job , that is, to enforce federal immigration law .

the feds also have no right to arbitrarily obstruct court in session, they have to seek administrative recess, they cant just barge in and start belching commands, they dont have that authority.

The agents in this case did no such thing. As far as I am aware this has not happened anywhere.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#624

Post by timewizard »

kstrauser wrote: post #406

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK callin…

Replace illegal immigration with any other crime.

What if a witness to a murder is an accused thief? Should we let thefts go unpunished because it may implicate their testimony in more severe crimes? What we actually do is offer the person reduced sentencing in exchange for their cooperation but we don't ignore their crime.

In terms of illegal immigrants, if they haven't filed any paperwork, or haven't attempted to legally claim asylum, then they shouldn't be surprised they're left without legal protections, even if they happen to have witnessed a more severe crime.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#625

Post by jmull »

bdelmas wrote: post #586
jmull wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An aside: “monkey patch” doesn’t mean what you think it means. More on topic… crimes aren’t all the same, and the willingness of a person to commit one kind of crime doesn’t necessarily mean they are willing to commit another kind of crime. For example, a large proportion of drivers in the US break the law every time they drive, from speeding to rolling stops, etc. By your standard all of these people are criminals w…

Oh yes you are right for monkey patch, I don't why it means something else where I am from. On the topic, sure. But maybe next time you go to another country, try to think how you would stay and break the law. Later, you will need a car, a bank account (by stealing a social security number or other solutions). Like how you are getting yourself ready to live a life of breaking the law just to go by in life. That's a s…

You're saying sanctuary cities lead to more people buying cars and opening bank accounts... that's the bad thing?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#626

Post by foobarchu »

bananalychee wrote: post #462
gitfan86 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> too heavy handed

This is way too tame a way to brand ignoring both due process and multiple court orders not to depoty people, including the supreme court.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#627

Post by lliamander »

km144 wrote: post #608
lliamander wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Your point does not engage with the question raised in the comment you're replying to. Would you like to live in a society where criminal justice is secondary to immigration enforcement? One where we deport people with acute conditions without treatment because they are not authorized to live in this country? Dealing with the "root cause" does not require inflicting unnecessary cruelty upon other human beings. > it h…

[flagged]

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#628

Post by s1artibartfast »

cactacea wrote: post #454

ICE has absolutely no business in state courthouses. The federal interest in enforcing immigration law should not be placed above the state's interest in enforcing equal protection under the law. Consider the case of a undocumented rape victim. Do they not deserve justice? Are we better off letting a rapist go free when their victim cannot testify against them because they were deported? I think not and I do not want…

Consider the case of an arrest warrant for a rapist. Can it not be served at a courthouse? What if a judge smuggled them out a private door after being informed of the arrest warrant.

Edit: the charge isn't for refusing to enforce. It's for smuggling someone out in attempt to actively impede their arrest.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#630

Post by dylan604 »

sophacles wrote: post #587
dylan604 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think those that have been opposed to current gun laws would be nearly as proficient at the use of their newly acquired weapon as opposed to those that have been collecting them for years? This just made up militia will be woefully untrained to handle anything. At least those that have their meeting in the woods practice to whatever extent they do, but that would be so much more than this recent trip to the sp…

I've taught people who had never held a gun to shoot. It takes an hour or two to get them to the point where they can get a nice grouping at a reasonable distance. I haven't owned a gun in 20 years (it's not my style). I go shooting every 3-4 years with some gun nut buddies who have big arsenals and go shooting often. I am a better shot than many of them. Armies have won wars while being comprised mostly of conscript…

Being able to shoot a gun at a paper target in the safety of a gun range is one thing. It's a different thing to do that when it's a person in front on you. It's also a totally different thing when that person in front of you is persons plural in the form of a trained opposing force and the bullets are coming at you. It takes training to quell that fear and be able to react in a manner that does not end with you full of lead.

When I've discussed training in this thread in other comments, this is what I was considering. Not target practice. Not being able reload a weapon. Specifically about mentally holding it together to not freeze, or even loose your ability to aim at something not a paper target in a gun range.

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