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Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

ca.finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#301

Post by ajmurmann »

dns_snek wrote: post #149
robertlagrant wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop using them. What do you do if every car manufacturer does something that's a "deal breaker"? Don't make a deal with them by not buying a car.

> What do you do if every car manufacturer does something that's a "deal breaker" Sane societies recognize the problem and regulate it out of existence.

Preference is subjective. I hate touch screens in cars that so anything but provide a screen for my phone, others love them. Should we ban touch screen controls because of my preference? I like to have a curated app store for my phone and not have a free-for-all with multiple stores of varying quality where I need to set up a new store just to use a popular app. So I can buy an iphone and people who have a different preference can buy an Android phone. If consumers actually cared that much they'd just avoid iOS. It's the magic of the market. Let's have consumers put their money where their mouth is! Stated preference and revealed preference often differ for a reason.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#302

Post by cge »

tantalor wrote: post #167
judge2020 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "pay or consent" advertising model, Wait, so the EU has made it illegal to sell a paid service while also offering an alternative where the user pays via seeing ads?

It's not the ads you are consenting to, its the personal data collection and targeting. You could have non-personalized, or contextual ads. But those are much less effective.

>You could have non-personalized, or contextual ads. But those are much less effective.

This is always a bit frustrating to me, in that, if someone doesn't like personal data collection, they likely have enough blocked that the attempts at targeted advertisements are likely to be very ineffective. And even in spaces where there is little personal data available, online advertising still seems to desperately cling to targeting rather than context.

I remember being struck by the contrast between the printed Times Literary Supplement, with advertisements for new book releases, conferences, cultural events, and so on, which all seem quite relevant to the audience, are often enjoyable and informative, and have directly motivated me to buy things, and the automated advertisements that were added to their podcast, for things like... a football-themed advertisement for a car dealership vaguely located near some rough geolocation of my IP address.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#303

Post by BurningFrog »

tossandthrow wrote: post #110
onli wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not completely unwarranted. According to the article, Facebook was fined for their model of asking for pay or accept tracking. Which is exactly what almost all publishers do, e.g. all big German newspapers. It's absolutely clear that this is against the law - they could show ads, but can't invade the users privacy for that, so no tracking ads - but they do it anyway and got away with it in various decisions. And…

Big German newspapers do not need to comply under DMA. The EU focusses, rightfully, on EU macro dynamics with these laws, not how smaller outlets work. This is very much reasonable. When a platform is big, it has bigger impact, but also bigger budgets to hire legal help and bigger budgets to stay compliant. This is well established in accounting where there exists different rules depending on size (in many jurisdicti…

In practice it means that only American companies end up paying large fees to the EU.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#304

Post by Sloowms »

dmitrygr wrote: post #293
popol12 wrote: post #22

I hope this will make Apple finally comply with EU law and allow app side loading on iOS. Real side loading, not the joke they implemented since iOS 17.

Generally, as a society, we hold that a contract cannot be modified without both parties’ agreement. When you bought that phone, it was with the completely clear, overt, and in no way uncertain understanding that it does specifically X Y Z, and does not do A B C. Now, without additional payment to the counterparty, you’re demanding your phone do A B C. What am I missing? According to accepted understandings of contra…

I'm not sure what society you are referring to but contracts have to adhere to laws in the EU.

This is also about software that is being updated. So the transaction is not completed yet. Apple could probably go the route of not providing the update to phones that were sold before the law was voted on/in place. I would guess that would lead to other legal battles.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#305

Post by _mlbt »

socalgal2 wrote: post #273
_mlbt wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s my worst nightmare. On my iPhone I want the equivalent of Spotify, not Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Max, etc.

I want the equivalent of a shops in the real world. One shop doesn't carry everything. Even Spotify doesn't carry everything. For one, Apple doesn't allow adult content apps. Steam does. I'm sure there's a market for adult games on iPhone as Steam's success there would seem to suggest. I don't think Apple should be required to sell adult games but I also don't think they should get to dictate that people can't use th…

Why can’t people just buy Android phones that allow for this? They should change, not Apple and their users that like the walled garden.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#306

Post by alxlaz »

fidotron wrote: post #247
alxlaz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you expect Amazon marketplace sellers to be able to link to their items being on ebay or shopify from the actual Amazon website? From the Amazon website? No. From the products they're selling? Yes, absolutely, and lots of them do, I get one of those business cards with "Find us on Amazon/Ebay/Shopify/whatever" in the box with almost every purchase. Same with apps. I obviously don't expect them to link to items f…

> From the Amazon website? No. Why not? A major detail you are ignoring here is Apple are the merchant of sale for everything via the App Store (Google at least were not for the Play Store at launch, I do not know if this has changed) so your comparisons do not make sense. The native app universe on iOS is closest to being an Apple run Costco. I would be very surprised if a fulfilled by Amazon order for a third party…

It's not my comparison. It's yours, and just as meaningless as your previous one about McDonald's.

This one's no better, either, as Costco's terms for its wholesale suppliers aren't anywhere close to Apple's, even though the agreement is structured more or less similarly -- but sure, let's entertain it: Costco's terms for its suppliers aren't public, but at least the ones that are on public record (via the SEC: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1940372/000149315222... ) make no restrictions on the choice of payment processors for digital products, which is what Apple got fined for.

There is a restriction on promotional material enclosed with the product (as in it needs prior written approval from Costco, not as in it's completely banned) and an explicit mention that it applies to digital products as well. But there is no requirement that digital products sold by Costco as merchant of sale for the supplier enable purchases only via Costco.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#307

Post by alextingle »

BurningFrog wrote: post #303
tossandthrow wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big German newspapers do not need to comply under DMA. The EU focusses, rightfully, on EU macro dynamics with these laws, not how smaller outlets work. This is very much reasonable. When a platform is big, it has bigger impact, but also bigger budgets to hire legal help and bigger budgets to stay compliant. This is well established in accounting where there exists different rules depending on size (in many jurisdicti…

In practice it means that only American companies end up paying large fees to the EU.

There are no fees.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#308

Post by fidotron »

LunaSea wrote: post #264
fidotron wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Users in the US don't care about protecting their privacy either. They absolutely do, you just like to dismiss it as being about status. It was similar when RIM were on top in north america. The status came because of their association with business because they provided secure messaging. High status people care about privacy and security.

> They absolutely do, you just like to dismiss it as being about status. No, they don't. I just gave you three counter examples. Why is it that iPhone users prefer GMail over iCloud Mail? Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/34197/share-of-us-respondents... > The status came because of their association with business because they provided secure messaging. Users have no understanding of security. High status or not…

> Users have no understanding of security. High status or not.

Upper middle class americans absolutely do, or they don't stay that way for very long. The US has a culture of a lot more personal responsibility, and a lot less trust of the government to handle it.

> Why is it that iPhone users prefer GMail over iCloud Mail?

They already had it from before people realized it was a bait and switch. Work users will almost certainly be using the Exchange integration, and private messaging is done via iMessage.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#309

Post by vanviegen »

dmitrygr wrote: post #293
popol12 wrote: post #22

I hope this will make Apple finally comply with EU law and allow app side loading on iOS. Real side loading, not the joke they implemented since iOS 17.

Generally, as a society, we hold that a contract cannot be modified without both parties’ agreement. When you bought that phone, it was with the completely clear, overt, and in no way uncertain understanding that it does specifically X Y Z, and does not do A B C. Now, without additional payment to the counterparty, you’re demanding your phone do A B C. What am I missing? According to accepted understandings of contra…

You are of the opinion that it is reasonable for a company to expect you to read, understand and fully agree with a contract that consists of countless pages of opaque legalese and that you have no say in whatsoever, just in order to use a service that's arguably a necessity to participate in public life?

The EU does not seem to share that opinion, and puts some restrictions on these types of 'contracts'. Are you really concerned that this is somehow unfair towards these companies? Companies that retain whole teams of lawyers to create a contract that hardly any of its billion counter parties (individual consumers) can fully comprehend, let alone push back on?

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#310

Post by LanceH »

Yeul wrote: post #161
madeofpalk wrote: post #11

> Under the DMA, app developers distributing their apps via Apple's App Store should be able to inform customers, free of charge, of alternative offers outside the App Store, steer them to those offers and allow them to make purchases. To me, this is the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after. It is unfair that Apple restricts Netflix from telling it's users that they can sign up and pay for Netlifx…

Aren't Americans always going on about free speech?

There is also the freedom to engage in a contact.

The freedom of speech isn't restricted, apple just isn't providing a platform to speak on.

This is an anti trust issue balance against two parties ability to be bound by contract.

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