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America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

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Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#51

Post by jillesvangurp »

JeremyNT wrote: post #38
jillesvangurp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get to collaborate with the rest of the world on security instead of relying on their government protecting them. This will push companies that are exposed to lawsuits to up their game and re-organize. And given their exposure to lawsuits, I doubt they'll drop the ball. They can't afford to. This is one area where the private sector should not need a lot of help. I have a European perspective to this. This isn't…

> And given their exposure to lawsuits, I doubt they'll drop the ball. They can't afford to. Color me skeptical. How many companies have lost sensitive due to extreme carelessness, time and again? The cost of taking security seriously is greater than the cost of settling after the fact. I feel like even the biggest data breaches result in little more than victims being offered free credit monitoring.

I don't think anything changes here in a material way.

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#52

Post by sofixa »

varjag wrote: post #47
sofixa wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, Putin is likely going to keep invading up to Germany’s Fulda Gap Russia can barely handle a stalemate with Ukraine. They have zero chance offensively against Poland and the Baltics, let alone the full blown might of the EU+UK (which also have independent nuclear weapons in France and to an extent the UK). That doesn't mean that a Polish offensive can march into Moscow, but it doesn't have to for Puti…

> Russia can barely handle a stalemate with Ukraine. See, people look at the stalemate and often draw false conclusions. It's not that Russia was too weak militarily, it's that Ukraine put up one hell of a fight. And all these economy size comparisons are mostly meaningless. Sure Russia may have a GDP of Italy but by the same logic Ukraine (which is a fraction of Russian GDP) should have lost long ago. > They have ze…

> See, people look at the stalemate and often draw false conclusions. It's not that Russia was too weak militarily, it's that Ukraine put up one hell of a fight

While Ukraine unquestionably put up a hell of a fight, the fact that the numerically superior army with the better and more numerical equipment, backed by the multiple times bigger and richer country failed is a failure. Especially when you consider that Ukraine doesn't have a navy and barely had an air force and anti-air, yet Russia failed at establishing air or naval control, let alone dominance.

> Russia's chances against the Baltics are pretty good, I would say 1 in 3.

Russia has no chance of having a war against the Baltics only. Any aggression against them will be met with a swift reaction from Poland, which has a better equipped army than Ukraine. If Ukraine can destroy the best Russian units and hold to a stalemate the majority of the remainder for years, Poland will wipe the floor with the war criminals.

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#53

Post by sennalen »

chaostheory wrote: post #26
antonioevans wrote: post #13

So in what way does this help the American people?

My guess is that they were overtly trying to show Russia that we aren’t a direct threat to them anymore in the vain attempt to avoid fighting a two front war in the upcoming global war. Unfortunately, Putin is likely going to keep invading up to Germany’s Fulda Gap. If we’re still a part of NATO, we would have no choice but to declare war.

This is WW3 playing out. Russia installed its people in America to dismantle our defenses.

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#54

Post by simpaticoder »

antonioevans wrote: post #13

So in what way does this help the American people?

>So in what way does this help the American people?

Shutting down Mitre and the CVE is against American interests, both public and private. That said, you can make an argument, one that revolves around cost (was the CVE DB worth $50M a year, especially given its backlog?). The other part of that argument rests on assuming there will be a private or semi-private replacement for the service, that there may be many of them, and therefore they will improve. One might assert, as libertarians do, that every service that's not monopoly of force should be private.

These aren't great arguments. $50M does seem like a lot, and maybe it could be reduced. I'd love to see an actual analysis of their operations rather then just ending the program. The second argument is worse. NIST and NOAA are examples of agencies that punch above their weight in terms of cost/benefit (the CFPB as well), and it seems like for-profit NIST and NOAA doesn't make much sense. But yes its worth considering the pros and cons of publicly funded service versus the private versions, in general. Even a bad argument is better than no argument, and the current admin does not bother to make one.

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#55

Post by catlikesshrimp »

anannymoose wrote: post #9
aqme28 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to who else funding it?

The UN? Make it an international cooperative effort?

The US is not the best friend of UN. Out of the WHO, menaces the ICJ, vetos that go against the democratic countries and a few times match russia. Trump out of the climate accord. Trump quit UN rights council, Trump cuts UNRWA funding.

You may agree with some, but there is a pattern.

I am waiting for it to leave the FAO. Not hoping, waiting.

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#56

Post by lynndotpy »

meindnoch wrote: post #24
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #20

Trump is going to be surprised for a second time that "everything's computer".

"The computer is huge, you know, I told Elon the other day, and by the way I was the first one to say this, the computer is tremendous, tremendously important. Baron, you know, he's so good with the computer, and that's what I said many times, you know, good genes, good genes. A friend of mine, great guy, very smart guy, told me the other day, Donald, the computer, and by the way, this is what most people don't reali…

Is this a real quote from Donald Trump, or a humorous "this-is-what-he-would-say" thing?

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#57

Post by anonymars »

netsharc wrote: post #33
chaostheory wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that they were overtly trying to show Russia that we aren’t a direct threat to them anymore in the vain attempt to avoid fighting a two front war in the upcoming global war. Unfortunately, Putin is likely going to keep invading up to Germany’s Fulda Gap. If we’re still a part of NATO, we would have no choice but to declare war.

That feels overly deferrential to Putin... It's like a person with muscles witnessing a beating and then when the perpretaror notices, looking away and saying "I didn't see anything!".

Or worse, rifling through the victim's pockets (mineral deal) and demanding a thank you.

So far John McCain had this one right. Show Putin weakness at your peril. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLAzeHnNgR8

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#58

Post by JKCalhoun »

ryao wrote: post #32
whynotmaybe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that after "In god we trust" on the bank notes, it's now "god helps those who help themselves" for the rest. > The phrase is often mistaken as a scriptural quote, though it is not stated in the Bible. Some Christians consider the expression contrary to the biblical message of God's grace and help for the helpless, and its denunciation of greed and selfishness. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_w…

I would think that phrase is related to the phrase, “he who does not work, does not eat”, which is in the Bible: https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/3-10.htm The phrase “he who does not work, does not eat” was never intended by its author to be applied to those who were physically incapable of working. You might say otherwise, but Saint Paul had been a very traditional adherent of the Jewish faith, which had require…

I didn't know anyone was splitting hairs as to whether the phrase was to be applied to the helpless.

Regardless, it always seems to be used as a cudgel against those whom the invoker believes is lazy or undeserving of God's help.

(As an atheist though the phrase always seemed like a justification for why prayers were not being answered.)

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#59

Post by JKCalhoun »

simpaticoder wrote: post #54
antonioevans wrote: post #13

So in what way does this help the American people?

>So in what way does this help the American people? Shutting down Mitre and the CVE is against American interests, both public and private. That said, you can make an argument, one that revolves around cost (was the CVE DB worth $50M a year, especially given its backlog?). The other part of that argument rests on assuming there will be a private or semi-private replacement for the service, that there may be many of t…

You seem to be doing a cost/benefit analysis. The sense we have is that the people doing the dismantling either have not done such an analysis or are at the very least keeping it from the public.

Re: America's cyber defenses are being dismantled from the inside

#60

Post by mrweasel »

antonioevans wrote: post #13

So in what way does this help the American people?

It saves money on the government budget... or so they think. I doubt that there's anything sinister going on. It's just numbers in a government spreadsheet, and the Trump administration sees money going to projects that benefit people outside the US, regardless of their internal value, and just assumes that it's the US money spend on other nations.

They are not smart enough, well informed enough, nor do they particularly care to educate themselves or listen to other smarter people, they just see a number in the budget which they don't understand, so it can go. I suppose the assumption is that if it's truly important enough, someone will turn it into a business.

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