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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

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Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#311

Post by throwaway2037 »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #45
eftpotrm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it happens. A doctor in my family told the story of a patient they were treating in hospital who medically needed to lose weight, and who they found unable to get any reduction until they dropped below _200_ calories a day. Metabolism is _significantly_ more complex than CI/CO, from experience.

You cant cheat thermodynamics, so something does not add up. Most likely the calorie estimates if they were self reported. To illustrate a single 37.5g snickers is slightly below 200kcal. I probably get that number of calories just from the milk in my coffee in an average day.

Whole milk (3.25% fat) is ~60kcals per 100grams. Are you really drinking 300+grams of whole milk in your coffee per day?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#312

Post by throwaway2037 »

dxuh wrote: post #31
cookiengineer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the weight, it's about the exercise. Start with something easy and establish a rule that won't ever be broken. If you break a rule once, you'll lose the fight. My rule, for example, when I started to train more: - start with 10 crunches every morning and evening - increase by 2 crunches every day - no exceptions When you are at ~2 months in, you can add weight training to it to get stronger. Additional…

Have you actually lost weight like that? I think exercise is a huge trap for weight loss. Cardio exercise makes you healthy, but it will also make you hungry. Especially if you are not used to it. Overweight people are usually already overeating. They can't deal with hunger and cravings well. If you make them do cardio, they will likely eat back whatever they burned and most likely much more. And even if they don't,…

This is a great comment, and I agree with it. Everything that I hear from experts on weight loss: Cardio exercise is not a major component. Most people are clueless about how few calories that cardio exercise burns. A 5km run burns about 300 calories. People would be shocked to see how little food is it, compared to the amount of effort to run 5km!

Since you said you went through three weight loss cycles (bravo, it is hard to do!), is exercise an important part of the effort? Example: Did you ever try cardio vs weight training? It seems like weight training is the more likely of the two to change body composition (more muscle, same or less fat). And higher muscle weight almost always leads to higher resting calorie burn rate.

Last thing that almost no one is talking about in this discussion: Once you start doing exercise, something changes in your brain. I cannot precisely explain it, but a huge number of men experience a drop is depressing thoughts after starting regular exercise. My guess: Exercise helps to de-stress which has all kinds of other positive impacts in your life.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#313

Post by throwaway2037 »

cookiengineer wrote: post #39
dxuh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually lost weight like that? I think exercise is a huge trap for weight loss. Cardio exercise makes you healthy, but it will also make you hungry. Especially if you are not used to it. Overweight people are usually already overeating. They can't deal with hunger and cravings well. If you make them do cardio, they will likely eat back whatever they burned and most likely much more. And even if they don't,…

I mean, the ranges of a European mentioning that they are overweight compared to the US are of course very different. What is overweight here counts as normal over there. I am currently at around ~120kg and my "goal weight" was around that area. I still have a tummy that I am not satisfied with, but my legs are mostly muscles due to me cycling a lot. I sold my car on purpose to force me to cycle in bad weather. Curre…

    > Currently I am also trying out a more hardcore exercise program because I never gained a lot of muscles in the past, even when I was doing MMA training 6 times a week.
To me, exercise is roughly divided between cardio and weight training. Cardio hardly builds any serious muscle mass (except probably your heart), but obviously weight training will. Can you tell us more about your new/current "more hardcore exercise program"? What is the mix of cardio vs weight training?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#314

Post by [deleted] »

zdragnar wrote: post #157
ceedan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think the same. I would guess that you do not have a big breakfast. Without getting a real meal in for breakfast, hitting a huge calorie surplus is difficult. If you counted your calories and tried to get a 1000 calorie meal for breakfast, hit 3000 calories a day, you’d probably gain 10% in a few weeks. Weight training is good too… you don’t want to just gain fat. 1000 calorie breakfast = bagel with cream c…

Or go get some fast food. Plenty of them in the US can easily top out at around your daily requirement. In college, I used to treat myself with a Hardee's sourdough Frisco burger because, for some reason, it was really damn good to me. Then I saw the calorie count: https://www.hardees.com/menu/charbroiled-burgers/hardees-fri... Add on some fries, regular soda if that's your thing, and you are pretty much at the daily…

[deleted]

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#315

Post by throwaway2037 »

anon373839 wrote: post #28
paulpauper wrote: post #9

The more you research/learn about obesity, the worse it is, much like smoking. One of the most depressing stats is that dieting does not get easier with time. The probability of eventually regaining all the weight eventually converges to 100%. Even if you're successful for 2 years, people still regain by year 4, 5, etc. The body never resists trying to regain the weight. GLP-1 drugs are the best hope yet.

This is self-defeating and untrue. Many people, myself included, have kept weight off for decades. But you don’t get there by thinking of your new lifestyle as “dieting”. You need to learn to love eating healthy foods in a healthy amount, and getting exercise. Eventually you can get to a place where the old foods and habits are simply unappealing.

    > Many people, myself included, have kept weight off for decades.
To be clear, more than 80% of people eventually regain weight lost during a diet. While your statement might be factually correct: "many people" can be 20% of the millions of people who diet each year, but it overlooks the main point: Keeping off weight after a diet requires near superhuman control. Most people cannot do it. Thank god I was born with good genes that makes it easy for me to control my weight. It looks and sounds like hell trying to diet to lose weight.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#316

Post by throwaway2037 »

pif wrote: post #29
paulpauper wrote: post #9

The more you research/learn about obesity, the worse it is, much like smoking. One of the most depressing stats is that dieting does not get easier with time. The probability of eventually regaining all the weight eventually converges to 100%. Even if you're successful for 2 years, people still regain by year 4, 5, etc. The body never resists trying to regain the weight. GLP-1 drugs are the best hope yet.

> One of the most depressing stats is that dieting does not get easier with time. Yeah, I've tried several times under medical control. I kept asking my supervising doctor: "When is the constant hunger going to get better?" And the answer was always in the range of a few weeks to several months. But that moment never came... never! And, in the end, all the kilograms I had lost along the route always found their way b…

Have you tried GLP-1 class drugs?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#317

Post by schrectacular »

outime wrote: post #72
anon373839 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is self-defeating and untrue. Many people, myself included, have kept weight off for decades. But you don’t get there by thinking of your new lifestyle as “dieting”. You need to learn to love eating healthy foods in a healthy amount, and getting exercise. Eventually you can get to a place where the old foods and habits are simply unappealing.

Yeah, what you said is key - and I can also vouch that it's absolutely possible to keep it away for good, aside from small setbacks that almost everyone experiences, since we’re not robots. The word diet is problematic because most people see it as something temporary. But you can't just eat healthy to lose weight and then go back to old habits, expecting the weight to stay off. That just doesn't make sense. Also for…

Bingo. In my experience most people dealing with obesity are dealing with an underlying addiction problem. It requires a huge change at a deep level that is impossible for some and not hard for others. Hence the widely varying responses to GP in this thread.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#318

Post by schrectacular »

agos wrote: post #53
_Algernon_ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's... A completely reasonable thing to say..

the "just" is doing a lot of work, too much. Most people with an addiction or weight problem are very well aware of what they should be doing (or not doing), but they'll be fighting with their body telling them constantly that they really, really need to eat or smoke. This is the hard part and telling someone "just do it" is not helpful in the least

Unfortunately it's also the only advice that works, in a trite and tautological way. You either find the willpower (in the addiction research it seems that some sort of "religious awakening" or "higher purpose" seems to be key) or you struggle with your addiction to the end.

The comment elsewhere about HAVING to eat was eye opening to me. For some reason I never made that connection - the cocaine addict doesn't have to do just a tiny line a few times a day. They can kick it permanently. A food addict has to face their temptations every meal...

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#319

Post by e40 »

jonplackett wrote: post #308
e40 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow!! I feel queasy if I eat more than 1/2 a bar of the 90%. It also completely takes the edge off my hunger, which is great for me.

I think I started getting addicted to the caffeine

Interesting. I do go days without it and don't have headaches, as I would expect from caffeine withdrawal, so I guess I don't eat enough. What happens when you stop for a day or two?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#320

Post by naasking »

gregoryl wrote: post #155
ngd wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a conflation of a slowing metabolism and low energy availability, which can reduce the amount of energy expended during the day (because you feel tired and do less). It can be quite subtle but when I've done some extended periods in a calorie deficit I start to notice subtle things, like a propensity to sit a bit longer, or to reduce my overall body movements. My resting metabolism is the same (I've had…

Anecdotally (but an experience shared at by at least some other long distance runners), when I get quite far into a calorie deficit via exercise, my brain will start suggesting shortcuts - urges to cut the corner on a trail, take a shorter path back etc. Its quite interesting!

More than that, your body downregulates unconscious activity (known as NEAT). This reduces fidgeting and even influences how likely you are to get up, say if you're thirsty or have to pee. In a caloric deficit, you're more likely to just "decide" to not get up to get that drink.
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