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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

151–160 of 343 posts

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#151

Well, yeah. Adipocytes multiply when you get fat. But when you lose weight, they don't apoptose, they just shrink in volume by giving up their lipid stores.

How do glp-1 drugs such as semaglutide, terzepatid and retatrutide impact apoptose? "Tirzepatide promotes M1-type macrophage apoptosis and reduces inflammatory factor secretion by inhibiting ERK phosphorylation" [1] [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15675...

They tell your brain you have lots of food in your stomach, which triggers lots of behavioral and metabolic changes. This does not necessarily reverse every effect of obesity, maybe not gene expression changes described in this article. But enough to keep weight off with ongoing treatment.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#152
post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

> It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. It is the exact, polar opposite for me. I cannot gain even if I eat junk all day.

I used to think the same. I would guess that you do not have a big breakfast. Without getting a real meal in for breakfast, hitting a huge calorie surplus is difficult. If you counted your calories and tried to get a 1000 calorie meal for breakfast, hit 3000 calories a day, you’d probably gain 10% in a few weeks. Weight training is good too… you don’t want to just gain fat.

1000 calorie breakfast = bagel with cream cheese, 3 eggs, banana, some berries, protein shake. It’s a whole lot more than a bowl of cereal.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#153
post #63
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is well known that if you gain muscle then lose it, it is easier to regain it than the first time (IIRC, the cells store extra nucleii?). This could be a similar effect but with fat cells.

As well as the "cell memory", the total number of fat cells you have in your body is set during adolescence, then it remains constant for the rest of your adult life. ( https://www.nature.com/articles/ncpgasthep1189 ). During adolescence, if you gain weight, you create new fat cells. During adulthood, the fat cells themselves just get larger. Arguably the best thing you can do is avoid obesity during childhood and ad…

> During adulthood, the fat cells themselves just get larger.

While true, it's also important to note that the lifetime of a fat cell is around ten years. Maintaining a decent diet for around ten years (no mean feat!) should be sufficient to leave you bereft of the actual adipose cells.

I also wonder how this intersects with transgender stuff — there's a reason why HRT is referred to as "second puberty", as it resets and changes a lot of underlying biological mechanisms and produces a lot of interesting epigenetic effects (While it does boil down to "replacing the sex hormone", both estrogen and testosterone have major effects on the body's immune system, etc. — actually this is one of the reasons I suspect that there's such a high comorbidity of autoimmune diseases within transgender people pre-HRT — their immune system is all out of wack! Mine calmed down a lot after starting and a year in I no longer get seasonal allergies). There's a huge lack of data in this regard though because transgender bodies are generally not felt to be worth studying outside of "health risks", even though there's a huge amount of information we could glean about how everyone's* body functions from it. Personally, I wonder whether second-puberty "resets" what the body decides is the baseline for fat storage.

* — and for anyone in doubt, we have around 90 years of HRT now that shows it's essentially completely safe (outside of the mid-80s when the estrogen being given was synthetic and non-bio-identical, and outside of the health risks of various things for trans women changing to be roughly equivalent of cis women's health risks).

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#154
post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

Jason Fung is probably the world's leading research expert on obesity. If you want videos to watch on it, it starts and ends with this guy. He has done a ton of lectures and blogposts going back over a decade, and also has the stereotypical clickbaity YouTube videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpllomiDMX0

He has surely dedicated a significant portion of his life to his own pet theories on obesity, but to consider him a well-regarded expert is very misleading.

He has quite a few claims that are just...ridiculous, and his pop science books have some serious flaws (as reported by actual experts).

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#155
post #89
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people blame failure to lose fat on a "slow metabolism" but this is usually incorrect. Have you had an actual resting metabolic rate (RMR) test to quantity your baseline total daily energy expenditure? Fat adaptation is a real thing. Endurance athletes focused on longer events will target some of their training around that energy system. This is more complex than can really be explained in an online comment…

There is also a conflation of a slowing metabolism and low energy availability, which can reduce the amount of energy expended during the day (because you feel tired and do less). It can be quite subtle but when I've done some extended periods in a calorie deficit I start to notice subtle things, like a propensity to sit a bit longer, or to reduce my overall body movements. My resting metabolism is the same (I've had…

Anecdotally (but an experience shared at by at least some other long distance runners), when I get quite far into a calorie deficit via exercise, my brain will start suggesting shortcuts - urges to cut the corner on a trail, take a shorter path back etc. Its quite interesting!

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#156
post #116
post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

For me, sugar was the reason I couldn't lose weight. I got a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) and got my blood sugar under control, and with very little effort I lost a lot of weight. I use 90% cacao Lindt to control my sweet tooth. 1/2 the bar has 4g of sugar, and I consume it over hours. It also has the side effect of reducing my hunger. If you eat much of 90% chocolate, it makes you feel nausea. The trick is to pu…

This also speaks to another point, when trying to lose weight: you must find new things to enjoy.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#157
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. It is the exact, polar opposite for me. I cannot gain even if I eat junk all day.

I used to think the same. I would guess that you do not have a big breakfast. Without getting a real meal in for breakfast, hitting a huge calorie surplus is difficult. If you counted your calories and tried to get a 1000 calorie meal for breakfast, hit 3000 calories a day, you’d probably gain 10% in a few weeks. Weight training is good too… you don’t want to just gain fat. 1000 calorie breakfast = bagel with cream c…

Or go get some fast food. Plenty of them in the US can easily top out at around your daily requirement.

In college, I used to treat myself with a Hardee's sourdough Frisco burger because, for some reason, it was really damn good to me. Then I saw the calorie count: https://www.hardees.com/menu/charbroiled-burgers/hardees-fri...

Add on some fries, regular soda if that's your thing, and you are pretty much at the daily recommendation.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#158

Well, yeah. Adipocytes multiply when you get fat. But when you lose weight, they don't apoptose, they just shrink in volume by giving up their lipid stores.

>> But when you lose weight, they don't apoptose Googled for "Adipocyte apoptosis" and oh boy... It does happen, but I don't trust the AI summary. This looks like a deep rabbit hole.

It seems fasting causes Adipocyte apoptosis. It makes sense, there is cell death.

I lost 100 lbs fasting over 1.5 years. I did gain some weight back after stopping, but not much. Strangely, where I saw fat return was not where most of it came off.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#159

Calorie counting is the only truly reliable way to lose weight

That's clearly not true. Calorie counting can work if you stick to it and aren't shit at estimating the calories in food. Almost any diet can work if you are able to stick with it. Appetite suppressants like amphetamines seen to work too. We've also seen that the new diabetes drugs actually work.

The only reliable way to lose weight is through a caloric deficit. And the only reliable way to be on a caloric deficit is through counting your calories. If you're dieting without actually counting your calories, then at best you are only hoping and guessing that your diet is sufficient enough to put you in a caloric deficit.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#160

Calorie counting is the only truly reliable way to lose weight

The only true reliable way is to burn more than you eat. Counting calories is a way to keep track of that, but it's only going to be so-so accurate unless you only eat labeled food. I will certainly not measure the weight of a banana I eat, and anything else is just a very rough estimate as a banana can be twice the size of another banana.

In general, when I was losing weight I did not really need to count calories, I just ate less than I did. And this worked because I was always hungry especially initially, until the body adapts. If you're always going to check "can I eat this one more thing dear calculator" I'd say you're not really ready to lose weight because tormenting yourself like this every day you will burn out before you can make a dent.

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