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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

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Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#191

Post by loeg »

bsder wrote: post #16
elric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like "just take these GLP-1 agonists for the rest of your life". Those seem to have an effect on addictions etc. But at least when it comes to weight, people seem to put it back on once they quit. Perhaps the GLP-1 agonist is lacking an epigenetic reset button ...

Fat cells only turn over about 20% per year. You basically need to maintain a reduced weight for 5 years before the fat cells "forget" the higher weight. If you come off it before that 5 years are up, yeah, you are probably expected to bounce back somewhat. You might not need to be on GLP-1 forever, but you might need to be on it longer than people currently think.

That's a much rosier picture than requiring GLP-1s for your entire lifetime.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#192

Post by nfg »

e40 wrote: post #116
spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

For me, sugar was the reason I couldn't lose weight. I got a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) and got my blood sugar under control, and with very little effort I lost a lot of weight. I use 90% cacao Lindt to control my sweet tooth. 1/2 the bar has 4g of sugar, and I consume it over hours. It also has the side effect of reducing my hunger. If you eat much of 90% chocolate, it makes you feel nausea. The trick is to pu…

I’d be interested to hear more here - what CGM did you buy? What was your process for monitoring?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#193

Post by loeg »

escobar_west wrote: post #159
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's clearly not true. Calorie counting can work if you stick to it and aren't shit at estimating the calories in food. Almost any diet can work if you are able to stick with it. Appetite suppressants like amphetamines seen to work too. We've also seen that the new diabetes drugs actually work.

The only reliable way to lose weight is through a caloric deficit. And the only reliable way to be on a caloric deficit is through counting your calories. If you're dieting without actually counting your calories, then at best you are only hoping and guessing that your diet is sufficient enough to put you in a caloric deficit.

You don't have to count calories to eat in a caloric deficit. Counting is not the only reliable way to hit a deficit. Tons and tons of people on GLP-1 drugs are not counting calories but are in a deficit.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#194

Post by iteria »

nom wrote: post #67
eftpotrm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it happens. A doctor in my family told the story of a patient they were treating in hospital who medically needed to lose weight, and who they found unable to get any reduction until they dropped below _200_ calories a day. Metabolism is _significantly_ more complex than CI/CO, from experience.

What is more likely: - a physics-breaking thermodynamic anomaly - a food addicted person is lying about their consumption 200 kcal a day.. yeah sure. A human body needs more than that just to breathe and pump blood. Even comatose a skinny person needs 5 times as much. Overweight people have a significantly higher metabolic base rate. Just breathing can easily be 1000kcal a day if your lungs have to move 30 kilos of u…

I can believe this as a human who fasts. I just don't eat every other day. I've fasted for multiple days. You would amazed at how much the scale doesn't move. I can lose zero weight after 36 hours of nothing but water entering me. The body is less CICO and more a system trying to maintain homeostasis as much as possible and pulling ever lever it can.

Yes, eventually eating every other day I did lose weight, but we're talking a steady glide of 1-2lbs a week nothing as severe as people would expect a severely overweight person who only ate half the week to lose.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#195

Post by taeric »

loeg wrote: post #190
taeric wrote: post #118

Doesn't similar happen for strength gain? People that have had larger muscles tend to have an easier time building them back up, as well.

> People that have had larger muscles tend to have an easier time building them back up, as well. Yes, although I don't know whether that's epigenetic.

Fair. I'm now curious to know what the different forms of memory things can have. I confess I assumed they were all inter-related.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#196

Post by kypro »

Aurornis wrote: post #162
meindnoch wrote: post #82

Well, yeah. Adipocytes multiply when you get fat. But when you lose weight, they don't apoptose, they just shrink in volume by giving up their lipid stores.

Similar adaptions occur in muscle. The extent of new muscle fiber development (hyperplasia) is debated, so there are multiples factors influencing how muscle retains some memory of past strength ability. Once you’ve reached a level of physical strength it’s easier to return to that level in the future. This has been a topic of debate in the sports world because past anabolic steroid use could therefore carry benefits…

> Once you’ve reached a level of physical strength it’s easier to return to that level in the future.

If you're reading this and you're I was ridiculously skinny and physically weak going into my 20s and I just assumed that was the way I was built. But I got into fitness in my early 20s and packed on quite a bit of muscle and it's genuinely shocking to me how much base-level muscle mass and strength I've retained now 15 years on.

I always felt one of the most demotivating things about working out was that all the effort I was putting into the gym would eventually go to waste when I stopped, but that's not true. Had I known this I'd probably have started working out much earlier and for much longer than I did.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#197

Post by MarcelOlsz »

Aurornis wrote: post #162
meindnoch wrote: post #82

Well, yeah. Adipocytes multiply when you get fat. But when you lose weight, they don't apoptose, they just shrink in volume by giving up their lipid stores.

Similar adaptions occur in muscle. The extent of new muscle fiber development (hyperplasia) is debated, so there are multiples factors influencing how muscle retains some memory of past strength ability. Once you’ve reached a level of physical strength it’s easier to return to that level in the future. This has been a topic of debate in the sports world because past anabolic steroid use could therefore carry benefits…

I always hear this "TRT for life" thing but every bodybuilder I've known on gear has had no problem going on/off on a blast-and-cruise with post-cycle therapy.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#198

Post by jonplackett »

e40 wrote: post #116
spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

For me, sugar was the reason I couldn't lose weight. I got a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) and got my blood sugar under control, and with very little effort I lost a lot of weight. I use 90% cacao Lindt to control my sweet tooth. 1/2 the bar has 4g of sugar, and I consume it over hours. It also has the side effect of reducing my hunger. If you eat much of 90% chocolate, it makes you feel nausea. The trick is to pu…

This worked for me for a while but I learned to love dark chocolate toooooo much.

I can now eat a 100g bar of 100% chocolate in a single sitting if I feel like it… And that’s 55g of fat, so more or less the fat I should be eating in a whole day.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#200

Post by e40 »

jonplackett wrote: post #198
e40 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, sugar was the reason I couldn't lose weight. I got a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) and got my blood sugar under control, and with very little effort I lost a lot of weight. I use 90% cacao Lindt to control my sweet tooth. 1/2 the bar has 4g of sugar, and I consume it over hours. It also has the side effect of reducing my hunger. If you eat much of 90% chocolate, it makes you feel nausea. The trick is to pu…

This worked for me for a while but I learned to love dark chocolate toooooo much. I can now eat a 100g bar of 100% chocolate in a single sitting if I feel like it… And that’s 55g of fat, so more or less the fat I should be eating in a whole day.

Wow!! I feel queasy if I eat more than 1/2 a bar of the 90%. It also completely takes the edge off my hunger, which is great for me.
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