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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

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Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#241

Post by bluecheese452 »

Izkata wrote: post #147
_Algernon_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure an obese person claiming to eat 1000kcal per day can still gain weight but that is largely due to selfreported calorie estimates being a bad measure. Put that person in a chamber where calorie intake is controlled and I'd bet the effect disappears.

Yeah, I don't know if it was that episode or from somewhere else, but there was a similar thing where they followed the person around for a day and it turned out they didn't count anything ate as a snack between meals. They were accurately counting their meals, but including the snacks went somewhere above 3000 a day.

Secret eaters, a British show.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#242

Post by djmips »

hnthrow90348765 wrote: post #104
spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

>but I wonder how much of that is bro science and how much of it is grounded in reality It's probably bro science or contributing a small amount to any effort. The biggest problem is the food industry serving shit in large portions, which can be hard for populations to psychologically resist (see: America). Most things in the grocery store are shit too. I don't think you can effectively teach people to resist it thou…

That's how my brother lost weight finally. He just never bought any of the stuff - so it wasn't even in his house. But he lives alone right now so if you live in a group setting you might be, in weak moments, snacking on bad things that other people brought in. It's kind of also why I don't think companies should provide candy machines etc.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#243

Post by djmips »

nom wrote: post #67
eftpotrm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it happens. A doctor in my family told the story of a patient they were treating in hospital who medically needed to lose weight, and who they found unable to get any reduction until they dropped below _200_ calories a day. Metabolism is _significantly_ more complex than CI/CO, from experience.

What is more likely: - a physics-breaking thermodynamic anomaly - a food addicted person is lying about their consumption 200 kcal a day.. yeah sure. A human body needs more than that just to breathe and pump blood. Even comatose a skinny person needs 5 times as much. Overweight people have a significantly higher metabolic base rate. Just breathing can easily be 1000kcal a day if your lungs have to move 30 kilos of u…

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/02/story-angus-barbieri...

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#244

Post by sharadov »

johnisgood wrote: post #144
spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

> It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. It is the exact, polar opposite for me. I cannot gain even if I eat junk all day.

It's hard for me to gain weight. But in my 30s, for a few months I was eating 3000 calories plus. My breakfast smoothie was about 800 calories - 2-3 scoops protein, a banana, almond butter. I gained about 5 pounds after 3 months. It was just too hard to eat that much while also eating healthy.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#245

Post by djmips »

formerly_proven wrote: post #59
bsder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fat cells only turn over about 20% per year. You basically need to maintain a reduced weight for 5 years before the fat cells "forget" the higher weight. If you come off it before that 5 years are up, yeah, you are probably expected to bounce back somewhat. You might not need to be on GLP-1 forever, but you might need to be on it longer than people currently think.

Weight / obesity management is basically managing a chronic condition, that's why time-limited interventions (workout camps, fasting, dieting, drug injections for a few months) don't work - you have to continuously manage the issue. The idea that you have an issue (obesity) and then make an intervention (loose weight) and therefore the issue is resolved (you are no longer obese) is just wrong. It needs to be managed…

It's semantics but 'changing your diet' is more apt.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#246

Post by e40 »

djmips wrote: post #233
e40 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, sugar was the reason I couldn't lose weight. I got a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) and got my blood sugar under control, and with very little effort I lost a lot of weight. I use 90% cacao Lindt to control my sweet tooth. 1/2 the bar has 4g of sugar, and I consume it over hours. It also has the side effect of reducing my hunger. If you eat much of 90% chocolate, it makes you feel nausea. The trick is to pu…

Isn't 90% Lindt the worst (of their chocolates) for Cadmium and other heavy metals though?

All I could find is this: https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/12/31/lindt-chocolate-heavy...

I am worried about it. Ugh.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#247

Post by e40 »

djmips wrote: post #239
e40 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Stelo. 2 for $99. Oddly, it shipped from Amazon but Amazon doesn't sell them. The app is subpar on iOS, but if you give Apple's Health app permission, you can get more data in there. Graphs that have absolute numbers. I think they reason their app doesn't give absolute values (for historical values, they give the current value only), is because it's not a calibrated device. It can't be used to control an insulin…

Does that imply you are paying $99 / month?

No, this was a one-time thing for me, to work out how food impacts my blood sugar. I've used 1 of the 2 I bought, and I plan to use the other in 3-4 months, to see how I react then, after 6+ months with low sugar intake.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#248

Post by e40 »

bilsbie wrote: post #229
e40 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, sugar was the reason I couldn't lose weight. I got a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) and got my blood sugar under control, and with very little effort I lost a lot of weight. I use 90% cacao Lindt to control my sweet tooth. 1/2 the bar has 4g of sugar, and I consume it over hours. It also has the side effect of reducing my hunger. If you eat much of 90% chocolate, it makes you feel nausea. The trick is to pu…

I thought a CGM would help me lose weight but it turned out my body is a hero at managing sugar spikes. A pint of ice cream? Back to baseline in under an hour. Big meal, no big spike, etc. So it turns out you can still gain weight even if you don’t spike your blood sugar. At least for me.

If you don't spike your blood sugar and you eat fewer calories that you need, I don't know how you wouldn't lose weight.

For me, a small piece of pie after dinner impacted my BS for 6-12 hours, according to the sensor. That was shocking.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#249

Post by taeric »

loeg wrote: post #206
taeric wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair. I'm now curious to know what the different forms of memory things can have. I confess I assumed they were all inter-related.

The mechanism I've heard of (heard proposed?) for skeletal muscle is that muscle cells retain the additional nuclei (myonuclei) developed during strength training, even during detraining periods. Then subsequently re-developing strength is easier because you've still got all of those nuclei.

That sounds similar to the way the fat thing was described to me, in the past. Curious how all of that relates. If anyone has a good read to dive into this, I'd be grateful!

It really lends itself to the way I model "training" for stuff. Sucks, as we want to think there are differences from rote practice and learning. But it increasingly seems that any differences there are are much softer than is often taught.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#250

Post by dorfsmay »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #117
dorfsmay wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with diets based only on calories is that they don't take satiety into account, nor health. Calories is what makes you gain/lose weight, it's basic physics. Satiety is what makes you want to eat more/less. Nutrients are what is making you healthy. Fiber and protein tends to make you feel full. Lack of them allow you to eat large amount of calories without feeling full. You need to keep track of micro and…

Sure; it's a layered system, each one taking more effort or thinking than the other. Easy diets: drink this shake 3x a day. Don't eat $food_category. Limit calory intake to $amount / day. More complex: The above, plus macronutrients. More complex: The above, plus micronutrients. Add dimensions like lifestyle choices (vegetarianism, veganism etc) or food sensitivities (celiac, lactose intolerance). I'm no diet expert…

Shakes don't provide satiety, most people will hate this and start eating something else within a few days.
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