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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

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Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#51

Post by joncrocks »

skirmish wrote: post #3
spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

It is well known that if you gain muscle then lose it, it is easier to regain it than the first time (IIRC, the cells store extra nucleii?). This could be a similar effect but with fat cells.

I believe that is the latest theory regarding the mechanism, yes.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3892465/

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#52

Post by _Algernon_ »

agos wrote: post #20
paulpauper wrote: post #9

The more you research/learn about obesity, the worse it is, much like smoking. One of the most depressing stats is that dieting does not get easier with time. The probability of eventually regaining all the weight eventually converges to 100%. Even if you're successful for 2 years, people still regain by year 4, 5, etc. The body never resists trying to regain the weight. GLP-1 drugs are the best hope yet.

absolutely. and yet people will still say "just eat less"! Imagine telling a person who smokes "just smoke less"

That's... A completely reasonable thing to say..

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#53

Post by agos »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #52
agos wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

absolutely. and yet people will still say "just eat less"! Imagine telling a person who smokes "just smoke less"

That's... A completely reasonable thing to say..

the "just" is doing a lot of work, too much. Most people with an addiction or weight problem are very well aware of what they should be doing (or not doing), but they'll be fighting with their body telling them constantly that they really, really need to eat or smoke. This is the hard part and telling someone "just do it" is not helpful in the least

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#54

Post by nradov »

spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

A lot of people blame failure to lose fat on a "slow metabolism" but this is usually incorrect. Have you had an actual resting metabolic rate (RMR) test to quantity your baseline total daily energy expenditure?

Fat adaptation is a real thing. Endurance athletes focused on longer events will target some of their training around that energy system. This is more complex than can really be explained in an online comment but basically you want to do long training sessions below your lactate threshold in a glycogen depleted state.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#56

Post by janpmz »

agos wrote: post #46
janpmz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why I get downvotes for that. Those are the things I did in the past two years to get to my dream weight and hold it without yoyo effect.

because "this worked for me" is a poor premise, especially if you're talking about an extreme diet (keto)

I'm not an expert on this topic, so take it with a grain of salt. The reason a low carb diet works for many people (not necessarily extreme keto) is that it reduces the volatility of blood sugar levels, and this results in fewer cravings and being less tired over the day. So taking in fewer calories becomes easier. And then I learned about gluconeogenesis. The body can create glucose on its own and perfectly regulates glucose levels in the brain, etc., once it switches to that mode.

In the end, these tips help to get into a different lifestyle and then reinforce the habits to stay there because it feels better.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#57

Post by blueflow »

agos wrote: post #25
fatdog2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its literally the answer unless parent has solved famine

it is, at best, a tautology, at worst, taunting the asker on the very thing they are struggling with. I think we can do better to help each other with something difficult

It is what i did. Learn to live with hunger for a while instead of going to "fix it" instantly.

No idea why you are so dismissive.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#58

Post by squeedles »

As this article shows, there are incredibly complex feedback mechanisms around weight and metabolism, but thermodynamics are still fundamentally a thing.

After he died last year, I ran across this engineering and accounting approach to weight maintenance and loss written up by John Walker (one of the Autodesk founders). It worked very well for him and changed the way I thought about weight and eating. It is interesting reading because he is "one of us"

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/
Basically, he uses a first level approximation of the body as a control system with a feedback loop, and tries to pin down some techniques to bring the system to a known good state (target weight) and manage that loop for long term stability.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#59

Post by formerly_proven »

bsder wrote: post #16
elric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like "just take these GLP-1 agonists for the rest of your life". Those seem to have an effect on addictions etc. But at least when it comes to weight, people seem to put it back on once they quit. Perhaps the GLP-1 agonist is lacking an epigenetic reset button ...

Fat cells only turn over about 20% per year. You basically need to maintain a reduced weight for 5 years before the fat cells "forget" the higher weight. If you come off it before that 5 years are up, yeah, you are probably expected to bounce back somewhat. You might not need to be on GLP-1 forever, but you might need to be on it longer than people currently think.

Weight / obesity management is basically managing a chronic condition, that's why time-limited interventions (workout camps, fasting, dieting, drug injections for a few months) don't work - you have to continuously manage the issue. The idea that you have an issue (obesity) and then make an intervention (loose weight) and therefore the issue is resolved (you are no longer obese) is just wrong. It needs to be managed from either the demand side (regular GLP-1 agonist injections to suppress hunger) or the supply side (eating less / better food). Hence: Dieting = never works. Building sustainable habits or continuous administering of GLP-1 = always works.

(Or you're one of the 5% or so of people with a rare gene variation that basically prevents major fat build-up in the body and there's just nothing to manage for you about that — this would've been a pretty disadvantageous adaption in the past, but it's fair to say that the other 95% are maladpated to the last couple thousand years of human life).

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#60

Post by sfjailbird »

spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

Insulin sensitivity is a real thing. The less sensitive to insulin you are, the more of it is produced to process a given amount of glucose. And the more insulin (anabolic) is produced, the less glucagon (catabolic) is.

In other words, low insulin sensitivity means your body remains in the feeding (fat building) state more, as opposed to fasting (fat burning).

Insulin sensitivity decreases with age, and with excessive intake of particularly simple carbs. It can be improved through fasting, certain dietary supplements, and low carb diet.

All of this is, to the best of my knowledge, not disputed or 'bro science'.

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