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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

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Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#131

Post by gosub100 »

rcruzeiro wrote: post #106
mkoubaa wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure the only way to reduce the number of cells is liposuction

Worse than that. Subcutaneous fat (which is the one you can trim off with liposuction) usually expands relying more in cell expansion and not in hyperplasia. Visceral fat on the other hand, is way more likely to involve hyperplasia and you cannot use liposuction against this type of fat. This is also the fat that is very hormonally active and increases the risks of diabetes, heart disease, cancers, strokes.

Is it unremovable because it's inside the core muscles and near internal organs?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#132

Post by wonderwonder »

layer8 wrote: post #123
wonderwonder wrote: post #73

I always used to think negatively about people that were severely overweight (still do unconsciously if I'm being honest) as I always attributed their obesity to lack of will power. I'm a huge proponent of better living through chemistry (steroids - with frequent blood work, nootropics, whatever) and recently I decided to get my abs back. I hopped on some compounded semiglutide and was blown away by the change in my…

I think you mean semaglutide.

right

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#133

Post by taeric »

squeedles wrote: post #81
dorfsmay wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with diets based only on calories is that they don't take satiety into account, nor health. Calories is what makes you gain/lose weight, it's basic physics. Satiety is what makes you want to eat more/less. Nutrients are what is making you healthy. Fiber and protein tends to make you feel full. Lack of them allow you to eat large amount of calories without feeling full. You need to keep track of micro and…

Quite so, and I think he does address that, but those are all second level factors, along with activity level, exercise, and their effect on your caloric requirements. He puts together a bunch of excel spreadsheets for tracking many factors, but I have found the simple discipline of accounting for what I eat in a little txt file on my phone sufficient to align my choices with my desired outcome.

One of life's great annoyances to me, is how incredibly effective "just doing something" tends to be. To that level, the act of tracking things is a strong something that almost always shows results. Be it lists on how often something has been cleaned, or procedural checklists on things that need to happen.

I'm convinced, at this point, that there is something mental on it, too. Getting you to think of something gets your body and mind to act differently towards it.

Part of this was obvious to me when I had kids. If they fell, they would immediately look to the reaction of others around them. If people looked scared, they would feel more hurt than if people didn't react at all. If people were encouraging what they were doing, they would sometimes not realize something might hurt.

But, back to my annoyance. As someone that hates tracking lists... why do they have to be so effective? :D

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#134

Post by testing22321 »

dorfsmay wrote: post #76
squeedles wrote: post #58

As this article shows, there are incredibly complex feedback mechanisms around weight and metabolism, but thermodynamics are still fundamentally a thing. After he died last year, I ran across this engineering and accounting approach to weight maintenance and loss written up by John Walker (one of the Autodesk founders). It worked very well for him and changed the way I thought about weight and eating. It is interesti…

The problem with diets based only on calories is that they don't take satiety into account, nor health. Calories is what makes you gain/lose weight, it's basic physics. Satiety is what makes you want to eat more/less. Nutrients are what is making you healthy. Fiber and protein tends to make you feel full. Lack of them allow you to eat large amount of calories without feeling full. You need to keep track of micro and…

You just need to keep it simple. Every time you are hungry have an enormous glass of water, and eat all the vegetables you want, always. Snacks are carrots, cauliflower, snap peas, cucumber.

Avoid sugar and fat as much as possible.

Remain in calorie deficit and you will lose weight and get plenty of nutrients.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#135

Post by blueflow »

agos wrote: post #113
blueflow wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is what i did. Learn to live with hunger for a while instead of going to "fix it" instantly. No idea why you are so dismissive.

the fact that you were able to live with your level of hunger does not mean that for somebody else the level of hunger is the same or is as easy to manage as it was for you. this is not helpful

It is not easy, it took me time and effort. Sorry if thats too difficult for some of ya'll. There is no easier way without meds.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#136

Post by testing22321 »

bsder wrote: post #16
elric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like "just take these GLP-1 agonists for the rest of your life". Those seem to have an effect on addictions etc. But at least when it comes to weight, people seem to put it back on once they quit. Perhaps the GLP-1 agonist is lacking an epigenetic reset button ...

Fat cells only turn over about 20% per year. You basically need to maintain a reduced weight for 5 years before the fat cells "forget" the higher weight. If you come off it before that 5 years are up, yeah, you are probably expected to bounce back somewhat. You might not need to be on GLP-1 forever, but you might need to be on it longer than people currently think.

> If you come off it before that 5 years are up, yeah, you are probably expected to bounce back somewhat.

It would only be possible to bounce back if you eat excess calories once off the GLP-1.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#138

Post by jodrellblank »

ykonstant wrote: post #36
sethammons wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10k calories a day is what a black bear eats preparing for hibernation. And it is what Michael Phelps would eat daily when training in the pool for hours on end. Obese people can remain obese eating 1000 calories a day. I recall one episode of My 600lb Life and the show's featured person that day was at 900 or 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight. Might have still been gaining. It is a dynamic system. Peo…

>Obese people can remain obese eating 1000 calories a day. I recall one episode of My 600lb Life and the show's featured person that day was at 900 or 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight. Might have still been gaining. How is that possible? There is a lower bound on calories needed (on average across say six months) to maintain life. Adding to that the calories needed to maintain the weight, I don't see…

> "How is that possible?"

Eat 1200 Calories per day, drink 5Kg of water, water retention, body mass and scale weight goes up with increasing water weight?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#139

Post by nradov »

gosub100 wrote: post #131
rcruzeiro wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse than that. Subcutaneous fat (which is the one you can trim off with liposuction) usually expands relying more in cell expansion and not in hyperplasia. Visceral fat on the other hand, is way more likely to involve hyperplasia and you cannot use liposuction against this type of fat. This is also the fat that is very hormonally active and increases the risks of diabetes, heart disease, cancers, strokes.

Is it unremovable because it's inside the core muscles and near internal organs?

Right. A surgeon can't just stick a liposuction tube into the abdominal cavity and poke around. This would be major invasive surgery with a high risk of complications, far worse than leaving the adipose tissue in place.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#140

Post by raincom »

meindnoch wrote: post #82

Well, yeah. Adipocytes multiply when you get fat. But when you lose weight, they don't apoptose, they just shrink in volume by giving up their lipid stores.

How do glp-1 drugs such as semaglutide, terzepatid and retatrutide impact apoptose?

"Tirzepatide promotes M1-type macrophage apoptosis and reduces inflammatory factor secretion by inhibiting ERK phosphorylation" [1]

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15675...

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