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First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

nasa.gov

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Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#81

Post by skeletonjelly »

jcarreiro wrote: post #78
skeletonjelly wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't pack a microphone! Bastards! :P Considering the propensity for dust storms I'm going to say windy. But the atmosphere is thinner, so this makes it harder to hear? Or quieter?

> But the atmosphere is thinner, so this makes it harder to > hear? Or quieter? Sound intensity for a plane wave is given by the equation $I = \xi^2 \omega^2 c \rho$. Here $\xi$ is the particle displacement (the amplitude of our wave), $\omega$ is the angular frequency, and $c \rho$, typically called $Z$, is the characteristic acoustic impedance, where $c$ is the speed of sound and $\rho$ is the density of the medium…

I knew my bait would bring someone smarter than me out of the woodwork! Thanks, very informative. Can I ask what's your background that led you to this?

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#82

Post by sp332 »

sosuke wrote: post #11
trafficlight wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These images aren't even from the main cameras. These are still navcam images. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_rover#Rover_instrumen...

I'm psyched they have a camera that can take true color images! Now we can see what Mars looks like without false color filtering. I wonder how close they get with those techniques to the real thing.

Normal "color" cameras are also false-color filtered. They just have the filters applied per-pixel instead of over the whole sensor at once. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#83

Post by jcarreiro »

jakeonthemove wrote: post #60
thetrb wrote: post #24

Looks pretty boring around there. I hope they can find something interesting somewhere around that area. I read that over the whole mission the rover is supposed to drive only ~20 miles, so there better be something interesting to observe :)

well, what do you expect, red trees and volcanoes :-)? Mars is kind of a dead planet, and the most interesting things you can see are the dust devils and maybe/hopefully, ice formations.

  > the most interesting things you can see are the dust
  > devils and maybe/hopefully, ice formations
For the geologists who designed the scientific instruments on Curiosity, the most interesting things they can see are rocks. Lots of rocks, from different periods in the geologic history of Mars.

This is why Gale Crater was picked as the rover's landing site; there are several nearby features, including Aeolis Mons, that will provide the rover with an opportunity to date and investigate rock layers from different eras.

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#84

Post by mbell »

hnriot wrote: post #7
pavel_lishin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to guess - and I do, because I don't work for NASA - it's because there's a limited payload space on board, and visible images are some of the least interesting things, science-wise, that you can ask from Mars. Combine this with the electronics-unfriendly environment, and you probably aren't going to be strapping huge DLSR's on a 2.5 billion dollar science machine. Edit: Also, these appear to be the navigati…

I doubt that is the reason, the weight of a 16mp sensor or marginally more than a 2mp one. The metal camera supports are much likely to dwarf the sensor weight differences. most of a DSLR's weight is lens and battery(s), both of which are not issues in this case, since the lens would be the same and the power comes from a nuclear battery. NASA couldn't just bolt on a 5DmkIII and expect it to work because the electron…

> most of a DSLR's weight is lens and battery(s), both of which are not issues in this case, since the lens would be the same

Only true if you assume the same sensor area for the 2MP sensor and the 16MP sensor, which is a poor assumption. If they did use sensors with the same area you would pay dearly with high noise and low sensitivity just to cram more pixels in there. I think most photographers figured out awhile ago that the "Megapixel War" is only meaningful as a way to pitch perceived quality to uninformed consumers.

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#85

Post by LoganCale »

hammock wrote: post #15

How far away are those hills in the back? I'm guessing they're farther away than we might think, due to Mars not having much of an atmosphere to reduce visibility.

I believe that's the crater rim, and the crater is 96 miles in diameter, with the landing site closer to the edge than the center.

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#86

Post by waterlesscloud »

mturmon wrote: post #71
ballooney wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It pains me to think what NASA could be doing with 10x more money. Me too, but pretty much it all ends going to Lockheed anyway whether it comes via the DoD or Nasa. I don't mean that conspiratorially either, even JPL people joke that JPL stands for "Just Procure Lockheed". The subcontractors rarely get mentioned in Nasa PR, but Nasa is really a whole bunch of different project offices spread over a few campuses wit…

The Just Procure Lockheed thing is never heard around JPL. I'm not doubting that someone said it, some time, but that's not the Lab mindset at all. If you want to make an institutional characterization about JPL, you could say "hardware-centric", or "arrogant", or "cocky", but not "Just Procure Lockheed". I agree that there are a lot of subs, but JPL and other centers have a very strong interest in maintaining a core…

I recently saw a lecture on a proposal for an upcoming space mission and the speaker mentioned the contractors at Lockheed working on the proposal several times. I remember because it kind of stood out to me that they're involved from the start.

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#87

Post by moe »

vladd wrote: post #13
outside1234 wrote: post #2

i hate to be critical of an image sent from millions of miles away but I have an honest question: Why do images from landers like this always look like there were taken from a iPhone 1's camera?

>> The bandwidth from Curiosity directly to Earth is about 8 kb/s. Curiosity has a high bandwidth link to the Mars Odyssey Orbiter, a Mars satellite, which has a 256 kb/s link to Earth. The early pictures are from a low resolution camera with a clear dust cover still attached. This camera is used to determine if Curiosity is about to land in a crater. A higher resolution camera will be activated later. (taken from ht…

The bandwidth from Curiosity directly to Earth is about 8 kb/s

For what it's worth, just about 15 years ago that was the bandwidth that you could expect from consumer internet and BBS connections on earth.

And now we're doing it to Mars. Boggles the mind.

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#88

Post by ekianjo »

jcarreiro wrote: post #72
jakeonthemove wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly - Venus seems like a better place to start interplanetary exploration with - as I understand, if you could cool it down to an acceptable temperature, you could walk on the surface with just a breathing apparatus, right?

> as I understand, if you could cool it down to an > acceptable temperature, you could walk on the surface > with just a breathing apparatus, right? Sadly, probably not. Cooling it down is already a very tall order, and even then, you would need to find a way to remove most of the atmosphere in order to reduce the pressure (~90 atm at the surface). Mars is a much better bet for human habitation in the short term. Che…

Yeah, I remember Venus was sometimes called as the "other blue planet" but it was an actual Hell of a place to live in. Looking like Earth but nothing close to it that would make it inhabitable.

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#89

Post by mturmon »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #86
mturmon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Just Procure Lockheed thing is never heard around JPL. I'm not doubting that someone said it, some time, but that's not the Lab mindset at all. If you want to make an institutional characterization about JPL, you could say "hardware-centric", or "arrogant", or "cocky", but not "Just Procure Lockheed". I agree that there are a lot of subs, but JPL and other centers have a very strong interest in maintaining a core…

I recently saw a lecture on a proposal for an upcoming space mission and the speaker mentioned the contractors at Lockheed working on the proposal several times. I remember because it kind of stood out to me that they're involved from the start.

Definitely.

A lot of large launches are done by United Launch Alliance (ULA), which is a Boeing/Lockheed-Martin consortium. (I.e., they provide the rocket and the launch facilities -- for instance, they did all the Shuttle launches, as well as the MSL launch.) You'd have to involve them at an early stage to get costing worked out.

There's a second consortium, also Boeing/Lockheed-Martin, that does manned space operations for Shuttle (formerly) and for Station. (Operations = flight control from the ground, post-launch. E.g., rotating the solar panels on Station.) That one is called United Space Alliance, or USA for short. Catchy, no? ;-) AFAIK, USA does not play any role in unmanned operations.

As the GP pointed out, there is a lot of money in launches, launch vehicles, and in manned operations, hence the contractor involvement. As you can guess -- you can't even play Boeing off against Lockheed-Martin because they're in a consortium -- that world is kind of creaky. SpaceX is disrupting ULA big-time.

Lockheed-Martin is also involved in instrument design and other non-launch activities. Getting an instrument into space is a multifaceted affair.

Here's a good example. Juno, a spacecraft currently on its way to Jupiter:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/juno/overview/index.html http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/juno.html

Managed by JPL, spacecraft by Lockheed-Martin, science PI is at SWIRI, instruments from all over. And this is a "medium-size" mission, not a "flagship" mission like MSL or James Webb.

Re: First full-resolution images of the Martian surface

#90

Post by Xcelerate »

jcarreiro wrote: post #72
jakeonthemove wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly - Venus seems like a better place to start interplanetary exploration with - as I understand, if you could cool it down to an acceptable temperature, you could walk on the surface with just a breathing apparatus, right?

> as I understand, if you could cool it down to an > acceptable temperature, you could walk on the surface > with just a breathing apparatus, right? Sadly, probably not. Cooling it down is already a very tall order, and even then, you would need to find a way to remove most of the atmosphere in order to reduce the pressure (~90 atm at the surface). Mars is a much better bet for human habitation in the short term. Che…

Although what about from a human health perspective? Can humans survive in a gravity that weak for a long time? What about animals?
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