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Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#41

Post by jofer »

foenix wrote: post #30
djha-skin wrote: post #5

Caffeine production is likely difficult in the face of a drier climate. Caffeine is present in the plant as a pesticide. Insects are a much bigger problem in wet climates over dry. Having grown up in a wet climate (Chicago) but now living in a dry one (Utah) I can say that finding a droubt tolerant species which concerns itself with pesticide production may be difficult. The same water which coffee relies on is the s…

> My mother was from Utah, and she always lamented at the small size of her flowers growing up in Chicago. They are much larger in Utah because they can get big without insects eating them. Counter-anecdote from a Utah local: every time we travel to a "wet" area (any travel but Arizona / Nevada) we always find the climate to be more verdant and flowery. Perhaps ecosystems are more multi-faceted in nature. Counter-cou…

Just moved to Utah (wife's job was relocated here) a couple of years ago after many decades in the southeast and midwest. Some stuff grows like crazy here, some stuff doesn't.

Nothing in the continental US competes with the gulf coast when it comes to sheer masses of flowering vegetation. Everything is green and most of it flowers. Everywhere you look, there's actually really neat and beautiful plants. But most of it is what folks think of as "weeds". Non native stuff in yards (what people think of as "flowers") often struggles. E.g. yapon is native and is often an ornamental and it'll grow like crazy, or even worse, try planting some Mexican petunias... I love those things, but they are a purple swarm that will swallow everything.

But plant your daffodils, and while they'll grow, they get overpowered and outspread by everything native. A lot of common ornamentals can't take the fully saturated then dry cycles and clay soils, too. Then there are the bugs. Everything gets eaten by something. So so so so so many bugs.

But in Utah, those common ornamentals absolutely thrive _if_ they get water. When you irrigate here, things grow like crazy. Flowers are huge and there are basically no bugs here at all. (I don't count box alder beetles or brine flies as "lots of bugs".)

But native vegetation can survive the actual climate here, while most ornamentals can't without extra water.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#42

Post by bryanlarsen »

isoprophlex wrote: post #26
bryanlarsen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went almost caffeine free at one point. I once got a good buzz from 300g of 90% chocolate. I say "almost" caffeine free because I still regularly ate chocolate. So I still had a little tolerance. Yet the difference between 50g of milk chocolate and 300g of 90% was very noticeable.

Not judging but to me 300 grams of chocolate, dark or otherwise, is an outright obscene amount

Go ahead and judge. It was an obscene amount.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#43

Post by foundart »

chris_va wrote: post #21

It is amazing how inefficient water use seems to be in plants. Dry biomass growth is ~1kg/m^2/year, wet maybe 4-5x that. But they see ~1m of rainfall, so 1000kg/m^2/year of water. The roots fail to take up some, but the rest seems to be ~99% lost due to transpiration (some of which is necessary for heat stress and/or pump up nutrients). Maybe after C4 rice we can get C4/CAM coffee?

Transpiration by plants, especially in large forested areas like the Amazon, plays an important role in creating future rainfall

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#44

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

jtbayly wrote: post #38
FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #20

Robusta is doing just fine... https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2024/08/coffee-is-threa...

If, as the article says, you like instant coffee, then great.

Vietnam seems to like it, fine. Pretty popular in France and Germany, too. If you have ever had Bustelo, then you've had it.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#45

Post by soperj »

WrongAssumption wrote: post #40
jfarina wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you rebrand a species? Drinking vomitoria sounds less than appetizing.

Yes you can. See Patagonian Toothfish -> Chilean Seabass.

Or Chinese Gooseberry -> Kiwi Fruit.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#46

Post by diob »

doodlebugging wrote: post #24

Maybe the answer is for someone to work on boosting natural caffeine levels in yaupon holly tea. It grows wild all over the SE US and can withstand multi-year drought or regular floods though it does best in a situation where it gets regular rainfall. You may have some in your own yard used as a hedge plant. I have several large trees on my place. It spreads underground by suckers and will take over an area if you do…

Maybe I’m just too deep into coffee at this point, but unless yaupon has different origins, processes, or varietals, I don’t really see folks in the specialty coffee world making the switch.

That said, it is interesting, and I’d definitely give it a try.

Some people do drink coffee just for the caffeine—but those folks aren’t usually worried about beans or brew methods. They’re just as likely to grab an energy drink or whatever’s convenient.

But for a lot of us, coffee’s more than that. There’s a whole culture around it, and I don’t see that going away anytime soon.

Then again, I'm deep into coffee, so I'm probably biased.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#47

Post by shepherdjerred »

klausa wrote: post #18
mortos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting, it's something I haven't really thought about. There is some desire for less caffeine as it adds bitterness. Eugenioides, a parent species to arabica the commonly cultivated species, inherently has less caffeine and is said to have a remarkably sweet cup. It's had some attention in barista competitions in the last few years.

Eugenioides is sweet in a way that no other coffee I ever had is sweet. You sometimes see "sweet" as an axis of flavor of coffee, or as a tasting note on a bag of fancy beans; but eugenioides is very different. It's _the_ dominant note in that cup, and it is much less fruity or floral, it's just... sweet. You taste the sweetness, and then the rest of the "typical" coffee notes come in the background, but much less pr…

When you say sweet, is that because the coffee has more sugar, or are there just other compounds?

I guess what I’m asking is what’s the difference between what you’re describing and making a regular good cup of coffee and adding a teaspoon of sugar?

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#48

Post by hombre_fatal »

jfarina wrote: post #39
sriacha wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many interesting native plants that provide alternatives to our extremely rigid globalized food systems. Also to note Ilex vomitoria is in the same genus as yerba mate, Ilex paraguariensis.

Can you rebrand a species? Drinking vomitoria sounds less than appetizing.

Oilseed rape / rapeseed became canola. Anything is possible.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#49

Post by bee_rider »

gruez wrote: post #13
iteria wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you truly detox from caffeine even extremely small amounts will be noticeable. I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I didn't even know there was caffeine in chocolate.

>If you truly detox from caffeine even extremely small amounts will be noticeable. Maybe for a subset of people. Otherwise kids will be getting crazy jitters the first time they eat chocolate (presumably before they ever drank coffee/tea), which obviously doesn't happen.

I recall preferring lighter chocolate as a kid. Maybe we’re accidentally providing kids with a slowly ramping caffeine tolerance, haha.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#50

Post by diob »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #23
jessekv wrote: post #16

> In Asia and Australia, people tend to prefer tea. Maybe, but Taiwan and Australia have some of the best coffee these days.

As an Australian i thought that was weird since we clearly favor coffee and have a very proud coffee culture so i looked it up. Turns out that statement is completely false. We drink more coffee than tea which matches my anecdotal experience. https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1399769/australia-regular...

Yeah, given you bump into a different coffee shop every 100ft in Melbourne, I'd be surprised if tea was winning.
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