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Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#31

Post by rwyinuse »

briandear wrote: post #22

Coffee crop failures have been around as long as there have been coffee crops, this idea that current coffee could go extinct is silly. Ideal locations for growing coffee can change and evolve over time, but an extinction event? C’mon. If that were to happen, there would be any people left to care. Literally everything is blamed on climate change these days. Too much snow? Climate change. Too little snow? Also climat…

You don't need an "extinction event" to hurt coffee production so much that drinking it (especially Arabica) becomes an expensive luxury due to lack of supply. Crops that are grown only in particular parts of the world will suffer the most from localized unusual weather patterns, as there won't be production from elsewhere to compensate.

Also, it takes some time to move production elsewhere. And if climate change continues to get worse, you can't really trust any place to have a consistent climate.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#32

Post by chongli »

djha-skin wrote: post #5

Caffeine production is likely difficult in the face of a drier climate. Caffeine is present in the plant as a pesticide. Insects are a much bigger problem in wet climates over dry. Having grown up in a wet climate (Chicago) but now living in a dry one (Utah) I can say that finding a droubt tolerant species which concerns itself with pesticide production may be difficult. The same water which coffee relies on is the s…

As a daily coffee drinker I wouldn't mind less caffeine in coffee. I drink coffee for its flavour (and have tried dozens of different coffees from many different roasters). I have tried some decafs but they just taste different and generally much flatter. They also behave very strangely in my espresso machine, requiring a much finer grind to sustain brewing pressure. From my limited understanding of decaf processes, they all remove more than just caffeine, so the effect on flavour is unavoidable.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#33

Post by sriacha »

doodlebugging wrote: post #24

Maybe the answer is for someone to work on boosting natural caffeine levels in yaupon holly tea. It grows wild all over the SE US and can withstand multi-year drought or regular floods though it does best in a situation where it gets regular rainfall. You may have some in your own yard used as a hedge plant. I have several large trees on my place. It spreads underground by suckers and will take over an area if you do…

There are so many interesting native plants that provide alternatives to our extremely rigid globalized food systems.

Also to note Ilex vomitoria is in the same genus as yerba mate, Ilex paraguariensis.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#34

Post by rmah »

jpalawaga wrote: post #25
briandear wrote: post #22

Coffee crop failures have been around as long as there have been coffee crops, this idea that current coffee could go extinct is silly. Ideal locations for growing coffee can change and evolve over time, but an extinction event? C’mon. If that were to happen, there would be any people left to care. Literally everything is blamed on climate change these days. Too much snow? Climate change. Too little snow? Also climat…

So you're not denying climate change, just the effects of it. I'm not sure that's any better. We call it climate change because warmer weather produces higher variance in weather patterns--you're adding entropy into the system. Overall warmer, but more rain (and mud/rockslides), more wind, more lightning, etc etc.

As I read it, he's not denying the effects either. He's just saying that not everything bad that happens wrt climate and weather is due to "climate change". Sometimes, it's just variations, which have always happened.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#35

Post by delecti »

garciasn wrote: post #15
recursive wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I think the causality went the other way in that case. I've been roughly caffeine free at certain intervals. Never felt anything from chocolate.

Depends on the chocolate type and how much you're eating. Milk chocolate has very low levels (~2mg per 28oz), but dark chocolate is ~15mg per 28oz. Coffee, at 24oz, would be around 275mg, depending. I find it hard to believe that some folks would feel the caffeine in chocolate unless they ate an entire dark chocolate bar in one sitting, but I suppose it's possible.

I think that 28oz of dark chocolate, whether weight or volume, would be a ludicrous amount to eat in one sitting. A chocolate bar is about 1.5 oz (and 1 fluid ounce of water weighs 1 ounce, at least to a rough approximation), so to eat 28 you'd need to eat nearly 20 chocolate bars.

For that matter 24oz is rather a lot of coffee to drink at once. I brew my daily coffee with 200g of water, or only about 7 floz.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#36

Post by wil421 »

djha-skin wrote: post #5

Caffeine production is likely difficult in the face of a drier climate. Caffeine is present in the plant as a pesticide. Insects are a much bigger problem in wet climates over dry. Having grown up in a wet climate (Chicago) but now living in a dry one (Utah) I can say that finding a droubt tolerant species which concerns itself with pesticide production may be difficult. The same water which coffee relies on is the s…

Google says Chicago has 45 days of full sun while Salt Lake City has 222 days. I think sun has much more to do with it than insects.

It’s the same reason Alaska can grow freakishly big produce in a short season. There’s not much darkness during the growing season.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#37

Post by Kirby64 »

chongli wrote: post #32
djha-skin wrote: post #5

Caffeine production is likely difficult in the face of a drier climate. Caffeine is present in the plant as a pesticide. Insects are a much bigger problem in wet climates over dry. Having grown up in a wet climate (Chicago) but now living in a dry one (Utah) I can say that finding a droubt tolerant species which concerns itself with pesticide production may be difficult. The same water which coffee relies on is the s…

As a daily coffee drinker I wouldn't mind less caffeine in coffee. I drink coffee for its flavour (and have tried dozens of different coffees from many different roasters). I have tried some decafs but they just taste different and generally much flatter. They also behave very strangely in my espresso machine, requiring a much finer grind to sustain brewing pressure. From my limited understanding of decaf processes,…

The biggest reason decaf brews, tastes, and grinds so different is the processing essentially causes the beans to expands (so you can extract the caffeine out of the center of the very dense, green coffee) and then you need to dehydrate them back to the proper moisture content for roasting. You take a green coffee that is previously extremely dense and non-porous, and make it much much more porous. This leads to roasting difficulities and brittleness when grinding which seems to lead to fines.

I'd agree, less caffeine in the bean without decaffinating would lead to a better tasting coffee (if you want the lesser caffeine).

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#39

Post by jfarina »

sriacha wrote: post #33
doodlebugging wrote: post #24

Maybe the answer is for someone to work on boosting natural caffeine levels in yaupon holly tea. It grows wild all over the SE US and can withstand multi-year drought or regular floods though it does best in a situation where it gets regular rainfall. You may have some in your own yard used as a hedge plant. I have several large trees on my place. It spreads underground by suckers and will take over an area if you do…

There are so many interesting native plants that provide alternatives to our extremely rigid globalized food systems. Also to note Ilex vomitoria is in the same genus as yerba mate, Ilex paraguariensis.

Can you rebrand a species? Drinking vomitoria sounds less than appetizing.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#40

Post by WrongAssumption »

jfarina wrote: post #39
sriacha wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many interesting native plants that provide alternatives to our extremely rigid globalized food systems. Also to note Ilex vomitoria is in the same genus as yerba mate, Ilex paraguariensis.

Can you rebrand a species? Drinking vomitoria sounds less than appetizing.

Yes you can. See Patagonian Toothfish -> Chilean Seabass.
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