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Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

smithsonianmag.com

21–30 of 140 posts

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#21
It is amazing how inefficient water use seems to be in plants.

Dry biomass growth is ~1kg/m^2/year, wet maybe 4-5x that. But they see ~1m of rainfall, so 1000kg/m^2/year of water. The roots fail to take up some, but the rest seems to be ~99% lost due to transpiration (some of which is necessary for heat stress and/or pump up nutrients).

Maybe after C4 rice we can get C4/CAM coffee?

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#22
Coffee crop failures have been around as long as there have been coffee crops, this idea that current coffee could go extinct is silly. Ideal locations for growing coffee can change and evolve over time, but an extinction event? C’mon. If that were to happen, there would be any people left to care.

Literally everything is blamed on climate change these days. Too much snow? Climate change. Too little snow? Also climate change.

A few years ago I was climbing Mont Blanc and the rockfall due to a warmer winter was blamed on climate change, then a few years later: near-record snow. It’s taking on religious overtones: rather than things happening because it’s God’s will — now it’s “climate.”

I am not denying that the climate changes, I am only calling out that literally every mishap in the natural world is being blamed on it. There is a lot of money in that business.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#23
post #16

> In Asia and Australia, people tend to prefer tea. Maybe, but Taiwan and Australia have some of the best coffee these days.

As an Australian i thought that was weird since we clearly favor coffee and have a very proud coffee culture so i looked it up.

Turns out that statement is completely false. We drink more coffee than tea which matches my anecdotal experience.

https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1399769/australia-regular...

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#24
Maybe the answer is for someone to work on boosting natural caffeine levels in yaupon holly tea.

It grows wild all over the SE US and can withstand multi-year drought or regular floods though it does best in a situation where it gets regular rainfall. You may have some in your own yard used as a hedge plant. I have several large trees on my place. It spreads underground by suckers and will take over an area if you do nothing to contain it. It is very strong once it forms a thicket. I have driven across a yaupon thicket in a seismic buggy and been in a situation where none of the tires were touching the ground as I drove because I was crossing a thick tangle of yaupon that supported the vehicle.

Caffeine levels are lower than coffee beans (40-60 mg versus >150 mg I think). Yaupon does also have theobromines, vasodilators, that are supposed to help it prevent the caffeine crash.

I have some leaves dried and drink it make a tea occasionally when I want a boost but not a cup of coffee level boost. It tastes great and is easy to prepare at home.

[0]https://yauponbrothers.com/blogs/news/is-yaupon-better-than-...

There are other sources of information about yaupon holly. It is proposed that the British naturalist who discovered Native Americans using it in their own ceremonies and drinking it casually decided to name it ilex vomitoria not because it was dangerous or poisonous to consume but because since it grew wild in the colonies, it could be a serious competitor to English tea so he used the name to make it less attractive.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#25

Coffee crop failures have been around as long as there have been coffee crops, this idea that current coffee could go extinct is silly. Ideal locations for growing coffee can change and evolve over time, but an extinction event? C’mon. If that were to happen, there would be any people left to care. Literally everything is blamed on climate change these days. Too much snow? Climate change. Too little snow? Also climat…

So you're not denying climate change, just the effects of it. I'm not sure that's any better.

We call it climate change because warmer weather produces higher variance in weather patterns--you're adding entropy into the system. Overall warmer, but more rain (and mud/rockslides), more wind, more lightning, etc etc.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I think the causality went the other way in that case. I've been roughly caffeine free at certain intervals. Never felt anything from chocolate.

I went almost caffeine free at one point. I once got a good buzz from 300g of 90% chocolate. I say "almost" caffeine free because I still regularly ate chocolate. So I still had a little tolerance. Yet the difference between 50g of milk chocolate and 300g of 90% was very noticeable.

Not judging but to me 300 grams of chocolate, dark or otherwise, is an outright obscene amount

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#27
post #16

> In Asia and Australia, people tend to prefer tea. Maybe, but Taiwan and Australia have some of the best coffee these days.

Not to mention Vietnam and Indonesia, which are the second and third largest coffee producers in the world.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#28

Coffee crop failures have been around as long as there have been coffee crops, this idea that current coffee could go extinct is silly. Ideal locations for growing coffee can change and evolve over time, but an extinction event? C’mon. If that were to happen, there would be any people left to care. Literally everything is blamed on climate change these days. Too much snow? Climate change. Too little snow? Also climat…

Climate change doesn't mean it only gets warmer, it means you get more extreme weather outcomes. Your anecdotes are a good example of climate change in action.

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tea leaves usually have more caffeine than coffee beans, but tea itself is usually more diluted than coffee. If you want a jolt, make a matcha shot with the same mass of matcha as you would normally do for coffee ;)

Or a traditional Maté

Somehow caffeine from Maté feels different though. To me coffee gives a fast spike and then comedown, while Maté's effect is more balanced, and lasts longer. And I don't think it's just caffeine content, because tea is nothing like that for me.

For staying productive for hours, nothing beats Maté for me (except stimulant medication).

Re: Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

#30

Caffeine production is likely difficult in the face of a drier climate. Caffeine is present in the plant as a pesticide. Insects are a much bigger problem in wet climates over dry. Having grown up in a wet climate (Chicago) but now living in a dry one (Utah) I can say that finding a droubt tolerant species which concerns itself with pesticide production may be difficult. The same water which coffee relies on is the s…

> My mother was from Utah, and she always lamented at the small size of her flowers growing up in Chicago. They are much larger in Utah because they can get big without insects eating them.

Counter-anecdote from a Utah local: every time we travel to a "wet" area (any travel but Arizona / Nevada) we always find the climate to be more verdant and flowery. Perhaps ecosystems are more multi-faceted in nature.

Counter-counter-anecdote: Our Roses love the weather here.

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