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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#311

Post by magicalist »

echelon wrote: post #255
p1necone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

The current administration does not support free speech for everyone. It's actively punishing free speech. You're right -- many people who claim to support free speech really mean they favor "free speech for me, not for thee." And typically these people want to be able to say controversial things without consequence. But how people respond to speech is orthogonal to whether or not we are allowed to exercise our right…

eh, I'm not going to cast stones at people who will voice support for the right to reprehensible speech and will fight for a system that makes sure even people with reprehensible speech have recognized rights and can get legal representation, even while they personally do not want to represent nazis etc. That's not a moral failing.

Suggesting a group is in some way a failure now because they don't use their speech how you think they should is, of course, at least a bit iffy while we're talking about this :) but FIRE is probably the group you're looking for today.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#312

Post by aprilthird2021 »

giantg2 wrote: post #294

It's a little surprising to see the reactions. It's some sort social phenomenon. It's as if people are awakening to the real world for the first time. Yes, the intensity and the breadth is new (for recent generations anyways). However, almost all of these actions have precedent in prior administrations. It would be nice if we can strengthen protections against abuses, but my guess is that as soon as we get a new admi…

Deporting people for an op Ed has precedent in which administration?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#313

Post by sapphicsnail »

slibhb wrote: post #257
p1necone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#314

Post by _yrnr »

whatever1 wrote: post #268

As a European for decades in the US, it is the first time in my life that I feel fear for expressing my opinions. Ps does HN offer the capability of completely deleting the account and all of the comments ?

> Ps does HN offer the capability of completely deleting the account and all of the comments ?

They claim to allow deleting the account (just the name, they keep the comments up), but in practice they ignore requests. Source: personal experience.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#315

Post by grandempire »

If the signal story mattered they would lead with the content of the messages. Perhaps they would not even reveal the method of the info was obtained. Since the story is reversed, and the public is not talking about what is said, I'm guessing nothing happened.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#316

Post by linktraveler »

SkipperCat wrote: post #278
linktraveler wrote: post #225

Everyone who disagrees with the article gets flagged. You are not the "free speech" people you pretend to be.

And this is fine because hacker news is just a web site and getting flagged may damage one’s ego but it doesn’t impact your freedom. Law firms being attacked by POTUS for their lawful actions, networks being frivolously sued and people being arrested without due process are the issue here.

[flagged]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#317

Post by cnokleberg »

analog31 wrote: post #103
jfengel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are already long past the point of no return. He is the manifestation of a popular will. Even if he vanished tomorrow, those voters will remain. They will not be daunted by an electoral setback. They control the Supreme Court, and will for decades. They control a majority of state legislatures -- which control how voting and districting work. We've been past the point of no return since 2016. If you still had hope…

They were barely more than half of the voters, and did not represent a single unified ideology. This doesn't mean they won't vote against their own interests again.

Less than half the voters (49.8% of popular vote), due to third-party candidates.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#318

Post by [deleted] »

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #287
echelon wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current administration does not support free speech for everyone. It's actively punishing free speech. You're right -- many people who claim to support free speech really mean they favor "free speech for me, not for thee." And typically these people want to be able to say controversial things without consequence. But how people respond to speech is orthogonal to whether or not we are allowed to exercise our right…

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[deleted]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#319

Post by bediger4000 »

whatever1 wrote: post #268

As a European for decades in the US, it is the first time in my life that I feel fear for expressing my opinions. Ps does HN offer the capability of completely deleting the account and all of the comments ?

That's a feature many have begged for, for years.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#320

Post by lostdog »

mptest wrote: post #216
jfengel wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attitude of "you won't make it better so we'll make it much, much worse" is the reason we're past the point of no return. Actually making things better is hard. A lot of people legitimately disagree with Bernie Sanders. He simply does not have majority support. For the rest of my life, the Democrats' policy is going to be "trying to get back the rights you lost in 2024”.

>he simply does not have majority support That very well may be, but considering all his policies do[0], the question must be asked, why? Maybe we should ask ourselves why, when the american majority supported his entire policy agenda, did they not support him? Could it be perhaps the billionaire owned media misrepresenting him and his positions? His own party conspiring to take him out of the primary running? Or jus…

It's not that complicated. In 2016 America though Bernie was a crazy leftist, and didn't vote for him. He did pick up more votes than expected as a protest against Hillary, and he was just starting to get buy-in on his policies.

Then he went out and sold America on some social democrat ideas. He did ok in 2020, but lost, partially because Democratic voters were afraid that Republicans would see him as a crazy leftist, and partially because Biden had more support from some demographics.

Yeah, there's some billionaire pushback, but Bernie chaired the budget committee. It's not like he was whacked by some billionaire hit squad, he just wasn't quite popular enough to win the presidential primaries.

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