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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#291

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

sega_sai wrote: post #78

As a person who lived in the States for a bit, and listened to a lot of news, I remember always this almost fawning over the Founding Fathers, checks and balances and great American constitution. It is remarkable, how easy it all goes, and most people don't do anything (i.e. out of 100 top law firms, only a handful joined the lawsuit against the government, etc.)

As an American, I agree - I'm pretty surprised at how nakedly transparent the whole thing has been. One basic example - I thought pretty much everyone agreed that at least some level of due process is just inherent to the rights of everyone in the US. When I hear administration figures arguing that flying the Venezuelans to El Salvadoran prisons is a good thing because "they're really bad dudes", I think "OK, and we're just supposed to trust that you and you alone can make that determination?" It has already been reported that multiple people had no ties to the Tren de Aragua gang, but were solely imprisoned due to their tattoos. When I took civics in high school this is exactly the type of stuff that we learned that basically "the US does not do", and there was an inherent pride in that fact. So like you I'm surprised at how quickly and transparently it all got washed away.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#292

Post by timewizard »

mattnewton wrote: post #157
timewizard wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong question. The question is "were peoples civil rights ignored because of that?" In both cases: YES.

Calling things disinformation is not analogous to deporting people and threatening to withhold funds from colleges that don’t crack down on speech the government doesn’t like hard enough; I’m not claiming there was no civil liberty violated by any previous administration, I am claiming this is a serious escalation of a new kind of attack on the first amendment.

> I’m not claiming there was no civil liberty violated by any previous administration

Well. There you go. We can argue about degrees between the red and blue ties but where would that get us? It's a ratchet. I can point out the many problems of the past administration and you can point them all out in this one, and in 8 years time, it will be worse.

> I am claiming this is a serious escalation of a new kind of attack on the first amendment.

Okay. Did you do anything different last time because of it?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#293

Post by timewizard »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #289
timewizard wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is not a civic duty. I have every right NOT to vote. It's my voice and I can use it as I please. Forcing me into a ballot box to pick between two awful choices is not civilized.

As a wise man once said, there may not be anybody you are excited to vote for , but there is almost certainly somebody you would like to vote against .

I'd rather have more than 2 parties.

You can vote against people. To me that's a tacit admission that you're accepting the proffer. As there's no way on your vote to indicate that it's a vote of protest vs. a vote of support. The candidate you vote for will see no difference. You'll have reduced your already meager position even further.

I do not accept this.

I mean if you want to get into the anti-democratic nature of the Unit Rule next I'd be happy to oblige you.

Your position is not automatically "good" just because school and MTV told you it was.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#294

Post by giantg2 »

It's a little surprising to see the reactions. It's some sort social phenomenon. It's as if people are awakening to the real world for the first time. Yes, the intensity and the breadth is new (for recent generations anyways). However, almost all of these actions have precedent in prior administrations. It would be nice if we can strengthen protections against abuses, but my guess is that as soon as we get a new administration, the fervor will be lost and similar actions to these will quietly continue.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#297

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

nine_zeros wrote: post #77
mattnewton wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American voters no longer agree on what made America special.

Yes, misinformation won. But when Trump actively cuts benefits, cuts jobs, cuts research, asks for bribes openly, quid pro quo everywhere, town halls unanswered - do voters in America feel willing to change their votes? Are voters willing to strike until the President resigns? Or are people ok with the country being sold to third world style corruption that is happening right in front of their faces?

One of Trump's major political strengths has been his consistent stance, in contradiction to the Republican mainstream, that Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid should not be cut. That's why he does so much better with lower income voters dependent on those programs than McCain or Romney could. I definitely think voters will turn on him if he changes his mind and cuts them anyway.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#298

Post by mmaunder »

While I think many of us here abhor political content on HN, Brian has taken a data driven approach to this post and provided an excellent roundup of facts and events. Conservatives and liberals both would be well advised to read his excellent roundup. He is doing this at great personal cost to his readership, if the comments on his blog are anything to go by.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#300

Post by tombert »

timewizard wrote: post #284
tombert wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't force you to do anything. No one did. I'm just judging you.

> I'm just judging you. Ah so your sense of civics is that easy to depart with? I take it you think no one could judge you for your position?

> Ah so your sense of civics is that easy to depart with?

I don't really agree with the sentiment of "be nice to people doing stupid stuff" that seems to permeate around here, so it's not really a "gotcha" to point out that I'm being a judgmental asshole.

> I take it you think no one could judge you for your position?

I don't give a shit if people judge me. I have my opinions. You're free to think that position is stupid if you want. There's eight billion other people on this planet, there's always going to be people who think my opinions are stupid. I think yours is stupid. It's a beautiful system.

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