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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#281

Post by soulofmischief »

p1necone wrote: post #174
twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

I know it's not your intention, but don't allow these people to control your perception of free speech advocates such that you're making blanket statements about them that might in turn color someone else's perception. They're hiding behind real free speech advocates, and powerful people are counting on stochastic comments like this one to help confuse the public.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#282

Post by NotMichaelBay »

sepositus wrote: post #217
dclowd9901 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of faithless reporting like that from Fox News and Newsmax, the information pipeline has been selling a narrative that the left has been on an authoritarian tear since Obama. The newscasts are chilling: every one of them for more than two decades has taken a position that the left is an existential threat to the United States. With that kind of context, it's really no wond…

A lot of people don't like being told to what say/think/do. It turns out if you bully those people enough they elect a dictator. It wasn't and still isn't a surprise to me.

I think what we know about disinformation shows people don't have to actually be bullied, they just have to think they're being bullied. Disinformation is cheap and apparently yields great returns.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#283

Post by outside1234 »

ta8645 wrote: post #275

It's been under attack a lot longer than the current administration. "free-speech does not mean freedom from consequences", "free speech does not apply to hate-speech", "we must suppress and limit the spread of misinformation", It really seems that people do not believe in free speech anymore, and only appeal to it as a principle to defend themselves, never to defend those they disagree with.

Don’t both-sides this. 99% of the attacks have been under the Trump administration.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#284

Post by timewizard »

tombert wrote: post #154
timewizard wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is not a civic duty. I have every right NOT to vote. It's my voice and I can use it as I please. Forcing me into a ballot box to pick between two awful choices is not civilized.

I didn't force you to do anything. No one did. I'm just judging you.

> I'm just judging you.

Ah so your sense of civics is that easy to depart with?

I take it you think no one could judge you for your position?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#285

Post by potsandpans »

reboot81 wrote: post #193

Watching the debacle from across the pond, wondering what everyone voting for Trump feared in the alternative. Kamala, extreme leftist? Guess youve never heard of USSR. And even not they were extreme.

People didn't vote for trump because they were afraid of kamala.

People _didn't_ vote for kamala because shes a milquetoast unqualified candidate that represents a party that has lost touch with it's base. It turns out, "just vote (for whoever we decide on at the dnc)." Is not a viable strategy.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#286

Post by SkipperCat »

linktraveler wrote: post #175

Nothing in this article actually makes a case for infringing upon the first amendment. "...But barely two months into his second term, the president has waged an unprecedented attack on the First Amendment rights of journalists, students, universities, government workers, lawyers and judges." Should journalists who make a career destroying lives with false narratives not have consequences? Should students who hate Am…

Where’s the due process? Executive orders for this stuff are not the way forward for a democracy to exist. We have laws, we should use them and let the judicial system work. You’d want the same for yourself if the roles were reversed.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#287

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

echelon wrote: post #255
p1necone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

The current administration does not support free speech for everyone. It's actively punishing free speech. You're right -- many people who claim to support free speech really mean they favor "free speech for me, not for thee." And typically these people want to be able to say controversial things without consequence. But how people respond to speech is orthogonal to whether or not we are allowed to exercise our right…

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#289

Post by amanaplanacanal »

timewizard wrote: post #125
Afforess wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is the minimum of civic duty, not the maximum.

Voting is not a civic duty. I have every right NOT to vote. It's my voice and I can use it as I please. Forcing me into a ballot box to pick between two awful choices is not civilized.

As a wise man once said, there may not be anybody you are excited to vote for, but there is almost certainly somebody you would like to vote against.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#290

Post by smallmancontrov »

barfingclouds wrote: post #252
dclowd9901 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of faithless reporting like that from Fox News and Newsmax, the information pipeline has been selling a narrative that the left has been on an authoritarian tear since Obama. The newscasts are chilling: every one of them for more than two decades has taken a position that the left is an existential threat to the United States. With that kind of context, it's really no wond…

The left has been authoritarian. Rewind the clock to 2018, and speak your mind freely on a college campus and at some point you’ll say something that makes you lose your job. That’s one of many examples of the left being actually authoritarian. I’m not saying two wrongs make a right and I’m not justifying the current administration. But if we look to how we got here, that’s a lot of why, if not mostly why.

Calling overzealous campus progressives of 2018 authoritarian is quite silly next to the actual demonstrations of actual authoritarian behavior from the actual authorities actually happening right now.
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