Plain – a web framework for building products with Python • Hacker News Board

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#101

Post by miiiiiike » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 12:53 PM UTC

simonw wrote: post #94

miiiiiike wrote: post #78

Related, "Django's REST (Framework) Problem" — https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43510495 I'm not sure that many people who rely on Django Rest Framework are aware that last month the bug tracker was made private and the project is looking for new maintainers. I love Django but the project needs to go through something similar to Angular's renaissance (and Angular needs to learn from Django docs.) I'd love to help…

Jacob Kaplan-Moss gave a great talk at the last DjangoCon about money - what Django would do with an increased budget and how to get there: https://jacobian.org/2024/oct/8/dsf-one-million/ Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nS1SSuHk9I

I saw the talk last year. Let's do it.

If I had $100,000 to spare I would give it to Django as an unrestricted donation. It would be worth every penny. But I'm a solo-dev and don't have that kind of cash on me.

Here's what I can do. I will send you $1,000 today if you can get something like a `django.contrib.rest` package (i.e. official rest api support) on the roadmap and secure matching funds. I'll make it a recurring donation if development gets going.

I don't want to support other REST libraries because there's no consensus. One app ships DRF views, another Ninja, and that one over there still has a Tastypie dep. Remember Piston? Using multiple rest packages means that figuring out how to create a consistent error format, etc is an exercise left to the reader.

Django makes great design decisions that the majority of devs can get behind. I'd love to have an officially supported REST package that feels like the rest of Django.

`django-tasks` is a good recent example. I was reading through the code a few months ago and I was impressed.

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#102

Post by catlover76 » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 12:54 PM UTC

This seems to have all the same pain-points as idiosyncrasies as Django, but it's just not Django, it's a copy, so why would I use it instead of using the more standard thing?

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#103

Post by wiseowise » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 1:05 PM UTC

I will only use this if there’s a whole page full of cancer emojis and analogies written for two year old gen Zs.

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#104

Post by miiiiiike » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 1:29 PM UTC

miiiiiike wrote: post #101

simonw wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jacob Kaplan-Moss gave a great talk at the last DjangoCon about money - what Django would do with an increased budget and how to get there: https://jacobian.org/2024/oct/8/dsf-one-million/ Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nS1SSuHk9I

I saw the talk last year. Let's do it. If I had $100,000 to spare I would give it to Django as an unrestricted donation. It would be worth every penny. But I'm a solo-dev and don't have that kind of cash on me. Here's what I can do. I will send you $1,000 today if you can get something like a `django.contrib.rest` package (i.e. official rest api support) on the roadmap and secure matching funds. I'll make it a recurr…

Another project I'd fund: Making Django an async-first (not async-only) framework over the next decade. It's easier to mix sync code into async than the other way around.

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#105

Post by 999900000999 » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 1:40 PM UTC

I have mixed feelings.

I just switched to Django from Supabase/Firebase. The main thing I like is theirs a plugin for everything you’d want.

It’s also much easier to actually self host, Supabase is open source, but actually doesn’t self host all that well. You have a bizarre gap between ’free’ with constant nag emails warning you there about to turn off your project, a 25$ paid tier and a black box enterprise level. Call us isn’t very transparent.

For Plain, I’d much rather this be a Django plugin, I don’t want to replace a well supported and documented framework with a 1 person fork. Definitely looks cool, but you’ll never be able to provide the same ecosystem and support as the main Django project.

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#106

Post by SJC_Hacker » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 2:03 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #32

danpalmer wrote: post #10

> Plain is a fork of Django Why. This makes me sad. Plain looks great, but Django's strength is its maturity and amazing, enduring community built on contributions from thousands. Forking it will at best split contributions and mean infrequent merges, and at worst means Plain users lose out on Django improvements and Django users lose out on Plain patches. It seems like Plain could be just a set of Django packages kn…

At this point, seems like the server is mostly a data access layer spitting out JSON for JavaScript, Java and Swift clients.

Don't forget Flutter :-)

But seriously there has been a movement back towards rending on the server-side. This underpinnings of Next.JS and HTMX

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#107

Post by SJC_Hacker » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 2:04 PM UTC

vram22 wrote: post #67

popcorncowboy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because late stage open source capitalism is now bypassing the messy business of building something popular and going straight open-core/vercel-model on the back of already popular libraries and frameworks. The emerging playbook is: - Find successful open source project - Fork with "reasons" - Pour VC into helpful features, great docs, DX and evangelism - Run the Vercel playbook We're gonna see a lot more of this.

Interesting. Got more examples of this playbook?

IRC -> Discord

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#108

Post by SJC_Hacker » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 2:13 PM UTC

revskill wrote: post #87

Sorry, can't work without typesafety.

if type(var) != type(var2): # here's your type safety

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#109

Post by miiiiiike » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 2:15 PM UTC

simonw wrote: post #94

miiiiiike wrote: post #78

Related, "Django's REST (Framework) Problem" — https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43510495 I'm not sure that many people who rely on Django Rest Framework are aware that last month the bug tracker was made private and the project is looking for new maintainers. I love Django but the project needs to go through something similar to Angular's renaissance (and Angular needs to learn from Django docs.) I'd love to help…

Jacob Kaplan-Moss gave a great talk at the last DjangoCon about money - what Django would do with an increased budget and how to get there: https://jacobian.org/2024/oct/8/dsf-one-million/ Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nS1SSuHk9I

I just setup a $83/month ~$1,000/year recurring donation.

https://www.djangoproject.com/fundraising/ if anyone else depends on Django.

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#110

Post by globular-toast » Sat, Mar 29, 2025, 2:29 PM UTC

sgammon wrote: post #90

By what metric is Python the most popular language on earth? I'm actually curious, genuinely asking. I thought JavaScript (Node) was king of newly written code, but perhaps that is outdated information.

It is number one according to the most widely cited index: https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ So if you want the actual metrics and methodology you'd have to go there.