Also, is there a Discord? Where's the community gathering? I'd like to try it :) looks neat.
Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
91–100 of 168 posts
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#92> Plain is a fork of Django Why. This makes me sad. Plain looks great, but Django's strength is its maturity and amazing, enduring community built on contributions from thousands. Forking it will at best split contributions and mean infrequent merges, and at worst means Plain users lose out on Django improvements and Django users lose out on Plain patches. It seems like Plain could be just a set of Django packages kn…
I've successfully replaced django.contrib.auth multiple times. It it not easy, but it is not too hard either. Honestly, everything else they do could be a regular Django app. Looks to me like forking a big project became a marketing move rather than technology necessity.
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#93By what metric is Python the most popular language on earth? I'm actually curious, genuinely asking. I thought JavaScript (Node) was king of newly written code, but perhaps that is outdated information.
https://github.blog/news-insights/octoverse/octoverse-2024/ - "In 2024, Python overtook JavaScript as the most popular language on GitHub, while Jupyter Notebooks skyrocketed—both of which underscore the surge in data science and machine learning on GitHub."
What's missing here though is TypeScript: I believe if you combine JavaScript and TypeScript together they still beat Python on GitHub.
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#94Related, "Django's REST (Framework) Problem" — https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43510495 I'm not sure that many people who rely on Django Rest Framework are aware that last month the bug tracker was made private and the project is looking for new maintainers. I love Django but the project needs to go through something similar to Angular's renaissance (and Angular needs to learn from Django docs.) I'd love to help…
Jacob Kaplan-Moss gave a great talk at the last DjangoCon about money - what Django would do with an increased budget and how to get there: https://jacobian.org/2024/oct/8/dsf-one-million/
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#95I took a peek at the docs https://plainframework.com/docs/ and the packages/functionality mentioned there.
Everything, and I mean everything is already either in core Django or in a great and properly supported django package that's been used in years and has been proven to be reliable.
I really can't understand the purpose of this package. Taking a peek at the about as mentioned by some others:
> You can think of Plain as a "what if?" > What if you didn't have to worry about deprecation policies?
The fact that Django has deprecation policies and they are so religiously followed allows me (and others) to have 10+ years old projects running in Django 5.1 and being ready for 5.2 without any problems or baggage!
> What if there were no committees?
A committee is a good thing. It ensures two things: a. It's not possible to commercialize the project. b. It makes sure that it will do what's best for most users. Some decisions may no be good for a particular user but it would be best for most users (considering my previous comment; I want to keep my 10+ years old project properly supported).
> What if you could change anything without consequence?
See previous comments. You can change anything without consequence when you have a clean slate, not when you need to support current stuff.
> What if Django wasn't originally built for a newspaper circa 2003?
This really doesn't relevant. Django is a general purpose framework.
> What if you had a clean slate, but a proven head start?
See the previous comments.
> working through years of incremental progress and committees, with a very real possibility of some things never happening, is just not for me.
Please see my previous answers. Also, about changing stuff, that's the purpose of packages, ain't it? Django has a lot of escape hatches to change its behavior from the defaults. And of course if you wanted to do something not supported you could try to do a PR so as to open another escape hatch so Django will keep the default behavior but you'll be able to implement your thingie.
Concluding, I really don't like this project forking Django because all this effort could be put to better use and definitely not try to split the community. Especially the community of a real Open Source project like Django.
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#96Almost at 1.0 and this is the state of the docs? Linked from the home page.
https://plainframework.com/docs/plain-api/plain/api/README.m... https://plainframework.com/docs/plain-mail/plain/mail
Yikes. If you want to fork a project, rather than contribute, bring better game.
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#97I think to really learn Python for web as a developer you really have to learn WSGI/Gunicorn/etc and handling sessions within this.
I’ve found the challenge with Python for web is deployment as most website deployments are geared towards serverless workers or cdn’d javascript bundles and most python systems use WSGI and sessions, which is fundamentally different and the biggest challenge in newbie’s using python for websites.
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#98> Plain is a fork of Django Why. This makes me sad. Plain looks great, but Django's strength is its maturity and amazing, enduring community built on contributions from thousands. Forking it will at best split contributions and mean infrequent merges, and at worst means Plain users lose out on Django improvements and Django users lose out on Plain patches. It seems like Plain could be just a set of Django packages kn…
At this point, seems like the server is mostly a data access layer spitting out JSON for JavaScript, Java and Swift clients.
That is the trend, but just because something is popular doesn't make it optimal. Developers are also excited about marginal gains from LLMs. The reality though is that most of those same teams could 2x their productivity by going back to a more retro stack, without losing quality, and also lowering costs in hosting and devops. The move to multi-service was for scale, but somewhere along the line people forgot to measure whether they needed that complexity at all.
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#99By what metric is Python the most popular language on earth? I'm actually curious, genuinely asking. I thought JavaScript (Node) was king of newly written code, but perhaps that is outdated information.
https://github.blog/news-insights/octoverse/octoverse-2024/ - "In 2024, Python overtook JavaScript as the most popular language on GitHub, while Jupyter Notebooks skyrocketed—both of which underscore the surge in data science and machine learning on GitHub." What's missing here though is TypeScript: I believe if you combine JavaScript and TypeScript together they still beat Python on GitHub.
Thanks, this is interesting. I'm also a big fan of your blog posts :)
Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python
#100I really don't understand why every time a big project is forked People are so upset. IMO, one of the great things about open source software is that a fork is possible. Maybe it will go nowhere, maybe some good ideas will be fed back to Django, maybe it will become the new standard. Most of the time , we will end up with better software overall.
No one is upset.
Did you read any other comments?