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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#541

Post by atif089 »

geerlingguy wrote: post #78
klipklop wrote: post #56

I feel Jeff should have bit the bullet and just returned it. I know it's a waste of time, but these products have to be rejected at retail. Retailers will eventually get tired of the extra support burden and demand manufacturers drop stuff like this. They should all get hit with the open box problem from the returns.

I'd love to take a stance like that, but the reality is I've already sunk about 6 hours total into the whole operation, and I have quite limited time for my home maintenance + improvement projects as it is (my bench currently has a new faucet set to fix the leaky bathroom faucet, as well as an exhaust fan to fix the broken one in our bathroom... and those are just the things that are currently broken , not the dozen…

Hey Jeff, I follow you on YouTube. I hope you're recovering well. Wishing you all the best.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#542

Post by andylynch »

schobi wrote: post #338
tzs wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had sort of the opposite situation. I needed a new washer and all the top rated ones according to Consumer Reports included WiFi. I asked at Home Depot if the one I was thinking of getting, an LG WM3400CW, required me to actually use the WiFi and they said no. I used it for a few weeks without ever even trying to set up WiFi and everything was fine. Then I found at that when you set up an LG washer for WiFi you can…

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

This reminds me that Fischer & washing machines have an Easter egg where they can use that beeper to play God Defend New Zealand.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#543

Post by nkurz »

jer0me wrote: post #264
nkurz wrote: post #182

I recently bought and installed the same dishwasher. I also don't like the app requirement to access some features. But contrary to some of the other comments, I feel the need point out that it's still a fully functional dishwasher even if you never connect it to Wifi. You will miss out on a few "advanced" features, but it washes dishes really well. I read the manual before I bought it, and I got the performance I ex…

I'm curious—what are the philosophical reasons for not having a password on your network?

It's a mixture of things, some philosophical and some practical.

I live in a very rural area with poor cell phone coverage. I'm happy to provide a WiFi signal for the lost people who are in front of my house trying to figure out why their GPS has led them here. We get a few each year, because Google Maps shows the road past my house going through while in reality it's closed in winter.

I also like it that I don't need to play the "what's the password" game with houseguests. I like that I don't need to input passwords to screenless devices using clumsy and slow input methods. I like the idea that the default should be sharing what you can afford to share rather than keeping everything private by except by special arrangement.

More generally, I don't think that closed networks substantially improve security and I don't like the push to require them. It's great to have the option to keep people off of your network through passwords or MAC filtering, but I don't like it being the default. I don't like technology that tries to enforce its own opinion about social norms.

Contrary to the other poster, it's not laziness. At this point it's frequently more difficult to host an open network than a password protected one. It might not be a good idea, but it's a conscious choice.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#544

Post by e40 »

dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Was all set to purchase a Bosch and the local shopsaid their quality has plummeted in recent years, recommend a Meile for the same price. Was told they get far fewer repair requests with this brand.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#545

Post by hydrogen7800 »

thorncorona wrote: post #244
dreamcompiler wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed Queens are great and very expensive. Many consumers will have sticker shock at their price. But they last 25 years so they'll save you big bucks in the long run. https://www.donsappliances.com/blog/speed-queen-washers

Speed Queens are great at destroying your clothing and being very expensive in the process you mean. Please don’t buy a top loader for the love of your clothing.

I have either the AWNE92SP113TW01 or AWNE82SP113TW01 top load washer for about 7 years, and haven't had any issues with damaged clothing. Once a drawstring from a hoodie got tangled at the bottom of the rotating agitator, but thats it. what problems have you had?

I also don't recall it being very expensive. Maybe $900.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#546

Post by deafpolygon »

spicybright wrote: post #513
a_paddy wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume only if you're setting it up to work "offline" with the app. Issuing a key pair to the hardware and the app from their ecosystem's trusted authority does seem like a secure way to do it.

Why can't the dishwasher or phone generate that key though?

Because they want people to connect online.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#547

Post by davidee »

e40 wrote: post #544
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Was all set to purchase a Bosch and the local shopsaid their quality has plummeted in recent years, recommend a Meile for the same price. Was told they get far fewer repair requests with this brand.

Wirecutter (NYT) would agree: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-dishwash...

Requisite archive.ph link: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-dishwash...

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#548

Post by boringg »

fransje26 wrote: post #429
boringg wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different experience. Bosch dish washer 800 series - fantastic, clean and quiet. No need for wireless if i don’t want it and no blocked features. Have other appliances - well made, sturdy and made to last. I wont say it was the cheapest option but i typically pay for a balance of quality, value and privacy.

Yes, but that's the $400-more-expensive model they mention in the article, with the 7 segment display. Which is a model at least 40% more expensive than the 500 series they bought.

Yup you are correct. I agree with article thats BS to gate keep functionality through cloud access requirements and boy am I happy that I bought the 800 series. That said I don't like contributing to the business model of paying for privacy - seems broken.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#549

Post by tartoran »

coldpie wrote: post #458
budro wrote: post #233

I work on embedded appliance software at my job. A few comments: It's quite easy to find yourself having non-zero boot times for some unfortunate reasons. At least in my org, the software as a whole is RAM/ROM constrained rather than speed constrained. Even when you're this close to bare metal, devs tend to write over-abstracted code riddled with inefficiencies. And of course most people don't profile the application…

I'm sorry for shitting on your job, but it seems like the solution is to bring back the buttons we had in the 80s and 90s and drop all the software garbage? I don't want a UI, I want an On button.

You will probably find the ones you like with simple interfaces and a few physical buttons for an additional price. Simple things are now premium.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#550

Post by wrasee »

klipklop wrote: post #56

I feel Jeff should have bit the bullet and just returned it. I know it's a waste of time, but these products have to be rejected at retail. Retailers will eventually get tired of the extra support burden and demand manufacturers drop stuff like this. They should all get hit with the open box problem from the returns.

Have to agree. The bottom line is that manufactures will continue to pull this trick as long as consumers keep buying. Even Jeff himself says that

> I don't think we should let vendors get away with this stuff.

But he _did_ let the vendor get away with it. That’s exactly what he did. He even spent a significant part of the article anticipating the push back by trying to reason why in his case he felt justified in doing so (because he’s busy, because he couldn’t wait a few days hand washing, because of family constraints), but presumably.. you shouldn’t?

So I don’t get it. It’s precisely the “do as I say, not as I do” that we have this problem. There is an immediate benefit to the saying part, on social media, the social signalling, etc (especially immediate for a YouTuber), but not so much for the doing part.

And I say that as largely a supporter, Jeff Geerling seems to be one of the good guys. Which I guess is why we are where we are?

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