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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#211

Post by kube-system »

hansvm wrote: post #195
theturtletalks wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy anything Bosch again after reading this thread. What other reason could Bosch have for hiding this functionality behind a website and user account if not to monetize it down the line or worse, bring more of the functionality behind a paywall. We already saw what happened with HP charging to print and even the recent Chromecast outage where something that should be handled locally is pinging back to G…

> pinging back to Google and then working I still have a bricked Android phone from nonsense like that. If you: 1. Factory reset the phone while not logged in to the last Google account on the phone 2. Have the Google account invalidated (e.g., using an identity verification app on a temp noogler account, ...) You'll never be able to access the phone again. The "factory reset" maintains some internal state despite a…

That's Factory Reset Protection. You can turn it off in settings, if you don't want that security feature.

But yes, factory reset on Android phones only wipes the user data partition. Your phone has other things that don't necessarily get reset under a factory reset too, for instance: eSIMs (which is useful that it doesn't, in my experience)

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#212

Post by geerlingguy »

eduction wrote: post #157
geerlingguy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to take a stance like that, but the reality is I've already sunk about 6 hours total into the whole operation, and I have quite limited time for my home maintenance + improvement projects as it is (my bench currently has a new faucet set to fix the leaky bathroom faucet, as well as an exhaust fan to fix the broken one in our bathroom... and those are just the things that are currently broken , not the dozen…

How long did it take to write the blog post

About 20 minutes; it's a lightly edited transcript of the video.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#213

Post by SamuelAdams »

didgetmaster wrote: post #73

The only feature that would make me want to connect it to the cloud is if it would automatically load the dishes and then put them back in the cupboard when it finished cleaning them.

You joke but Google is working on this now. What if you could have a maid robot in every household, similar to the I, Robot film and book.

https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/gemini-robotics-brings...

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#214

Post by cmcaleer »

dredmorbius wrote: post #123
NegatioN wrote: post #49

When buying a new washing machine and dryer, I actually spent hours extra to find models /without/ app requirements last summer. There were so few of them that did what I wanted, and also didn't require internet access that I'm worried the next time around there will be no more options where I can elect to keep them off the net. :/

Has anyone else looking at this looked into the prosumer / commercial space? I suspect that market will have a lot less tolerant for digital bullshit.

This was the approach I took when purchasing a TV. Getting a TV without a microphone and Wi-Fi connectivity is borderline impossible... in the consumer segment.

My living room is now furnished with a digital signage monitor and a soundbar.

The price was a touch more than a normal TV of a similar size, and there was not much variety (I had to give up on OLED at the size I wanted for example), but I just have such a hatred for the constant nagging for Wi-Fi and terms of use acceptance nags my parents' new TV had.

If your product is cheaper because you sell my data to the highest bidder, just let me outbid them please.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#215

Post by kube-system »

amiga386 wrote: post #209
kube-system wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is annoying, but given that the basic functionality works, it personally wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me. I don't normally do anything fancy with the settings on my dishwasher, I just want it to wash the dishes. I'd rather have a dishwasher that puts delay and eco mode behind an app, than some shitty dishwasher that doesn't clean the dishes well on the "normal" setting.

This reminds me of the EU regulations, which not only: 1. _require_ dishwashers to have an Eco mode, not locked behind anything, but also 2. _require_ Eco mode to be the default . If you buy a dishwasher in the EU and turn it on, and press "start", it'll be on Eco mode, the mode that uses the least water/power. If you don't care about the dishwasher other than to turn it on, and it works for you, then everybody wins.…

That sounds annoying too. I want the default to be the one that does what I want it to do, clean a normal load of dishes, and do a good job at it. My dishwasher defaults to the last mode I set it to.

> I find it absolutely crazy that a German company, when given free rein in the USA, would actually paywall Eco mode. It's just mind-boggling.

... they didn't do that. There is no paywall.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#216

Post by amiga386 »

kube-system wrote: post #215
amiga386 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the EU regulations, which not only: 1. _require_ dishwashers to have an Eco mode, not locked behind anything, but also 2. _require_ Eco mode to be the default . If you buy a dishwasher in the EU and turn it on, and press "start", it'll be on Eco mode, the mode that uses the least water/power. If you don't care about the dishwasher other than to turn it on, and it works for you, then everybody wins.…

That sounds annoying too. I want the default to be the one that does what I want it to do, clean a normal load of dishes, and do a good job at it. My dishwasher defaults to the last mode I set it to. > I find it absolutely crazy that a German company, when given free rein in the USA, would actually paywall Eco mode. It's just mind-boggling. ... they didn't do that. There is no paywall.

Perhaps I misspoke, but needing a network connection, needing a smartphone, giving over your details, very likely getting marketing materials you didn't want via app notifications, or email, requiring to comply with terms of service, and at any time the company is free to rescind or change the offer, to me is "paywalling". You are paying out, giving them things of real value, over and above buying the device, and if you don't then they're blocking functionality.

All the functionality should be in the device itself, and require no sign-up or ongoing relationship with the company to use it.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#217

Post by technothrasher »

saaaaaam wrote: post #57
HenryBemis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wear another portable digital distraction source on my wrist Oh but why? Everyone around me had an apple watch, I was the odd one out. And I said to my self "no more!!!" I bought a second-hand apple watch, I deleted all the garbage from it, I got a comfortable bracelet for it. Then I disabled Wifi/Bluetooth/Data. I got an Android phone, so connectivity is limited/shit anyway, but if you kill background processing,…

Do people who wear an Apple Watch think they are cool? I think that is maybe in the eye of the beholder, but if it makes you feel like a cool idiot that’s nice, but I don’t know anyone who got an Apple watch because it’s cool. If you want to be cool you’d have a proper watch that every single other person doesn’t have… For example I got mine because it has a sim in it which means I can leave my phone at home and walk…

> If you want to be cool you’d have a proper watch that every single other person doesn’t have

That would be me. I like my mechanical watches. But it doesn't make me any more or less cool than majority of people around me with Apple Watches on. Nobody really notices or gives a crap.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#218

Post by dzhiurgis »

ryandrake wrote: post #158
dzhiurgis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say I see much appeal for dishwasher being online for myself, but some people live their lives differently. Perhaps this is a shared dishwasher in student house where time is tight (applies to clothes washer). Perhaps you want to fire it when power is cheap. Perhaps you want it to start automatically when you left house. Finally - adjusting settings is easier via phone UI or voice. It kinda lame so many peopl…

All of these use cases can be achieved without requiring a manufacturer-run Internet-connected cloud service. I don't think this is a lack of imagination. Personally, I would love network-connected appliances that could be controlled and automated over my LAN. What I (and others) object to is the unnecessary round trip through the Internet to the manufacturer's server which will inevitably become the weakest link. If…

Yes they are achievable, but UX from normal users POV is horrible nor it's something that most people want. If it's on my smartphone then it should also work anywhere in the world. User doesn't really car how it's achieved, but it needs to be bulletproof.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#219

Post by kube-system »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #205
theturtletalks wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy anything Bosch again after reading this thread. What other reason could Bosch have for hiding this functionality behind a website and user account if not to monetize it down the line or worse, bring more of the functionality behind a paywall. We already saw what happened with HP charging to print and even the recent Chromecast outage where something that should be handled locally is pinging back to G…

I mean, is Bosch the bad guy here or the salesperson? It sounds like they either lied or were incompetent. I guess maybe both are bad. Yesterday I tried to configure a friend’s wifi router after the speed was suspiciously slow. It forced me to ask them for their Spectrum login info (the same info they use to pay the bills, not the wifi info) which nobody remembered and I gave up. Apparently this is required according…

Cable company "Customer Premises Equipment" normally has provisioning capabilities built in, so that they can be controlled/reconfigured/reset from the upstream provider. You could probably call Spectrum and they can reset for you.

The reason they do all of this is exactly because of the scenario you ran into: people are always forgetting their logins -- and back when modems/routers didn't have remote provisioning, they spent a lot of time and money sending technicians out to physically reset people's equipment.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#220

Post by 1propionyl »

belorn wrote: post #99
klipklop wrote: post #56

I feel Jeff should have bit the bullet and just returned it. I know it's a waste of time, but these products have to be rejected at retail. Retailers will eventually get tired of the extra support burden and demand manufacturers drop stuff like this. They should all get hit with the open box problem from the returns.

Those products will earn profits to the producers after sale by bundling ads onto the app. Since the cost of producing the networking is less than projected sales, every unit will sooner or later have said networking and app. The app-only dishwashers will then out compete other dishwashers, slowly replacing all alternatives to app-only dishwashers outside "industry dishwashers" which will be app-free but cost 10x tha…

> Try buy a TV without smart features.

Easy. Just buy a dumb monitor. Why do you even need the TV tuner?

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