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OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

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Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#761

Post by ch4s3 »

avgd wrote: post #618
ch4s3 wrote: post #188

I'm surprised to see only one comment here addressing the issue of Chinese AI companies just flatly ignoring US copyright and IP laws/norms. I wonder if there is a viable path where we can facilitate some sort of economic remuneration for people who write and create visual art while not giving up the game to Chinese companies. This seems to be a thorny dilemma.

> Chinese AI companies just flatly ignoring US copyright It is increasingly tiresome to see this clearly racist bias at work when every US company doing AI has been acting the same way. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell... https://piracymonitor.org/chat-gpt-trained-using-pirated-e-b...

I am certainly NOT expressing racial animus and take offense at the suggestion. My point is that a near peer competitive nation that has party political officers embedded into tech companies is the largest rival to domestic companies. I for one would prefer to live in a world where the winning "AI" companies are based in democracies and not in autocracies.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#762

Post by bugglebeetle »

enriquec wrote: post #738
madsbuch wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, let's wing serving 400 million sandwiches - whatever the risk that the US population dies of salmonella or listeria. Anyways, one of the things about growing up is realizing that there is more to the world than just innovation.

I think one of the things about growing up is accepting personal responsibility and not looking at the government/daddy to protect you from everything. If I sell 400 million skateboards - do we need a regulatory board to approve skateboard design changes? I'm sure millions of people make unregulated sandwiches at home just fine.

What I always find hilarious about these naive libertarian types is they never even bother to check their hypotheticals against reality. For example, FutureMotion had to have a regulatory body intervene because they were killing and injuring people with their skateboard designs:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/03/future-motion-...

So the answer to your question is, “yes, that needs to and did happen.”

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#763

Post by xbar »

woah wrote: post #275
taurath wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still warps my brain, they’ve taken trillions of dollars of industry and made a product worth billions by stealing it. IP is practically the basis of the economy, and these models warp and obfuscate ownership of everything, like a giant reset button on who can hold knowledge. It wouldn’t be legal, or allowed if tech wasn't seen as the growth path of our economy. It’s a hell of a needle to thread and it’s unlikely…

"IP" is a very new concept in our culture and completely absent in other cultures. It was invented to prevent verbatim reprints of books, but even so, the publishing industry existed for hundreds of years before then. It's been expanded greatly in the past 50 years. Acting like copyright is some natural law of the universe that LLMs are upending simply because they can learn from written texts is silly. If you want t…

Your argument that IP and copyright do not exist now because they did not exist in the past is bogus.

IP and copyright exist.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#764

Post by Ray20 »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #707
bigbuppo wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying I should avoid REITs focusing on US-based hyperscale datacenters for AI workloads?

Salt was used to pay salaries at one time too, and ML/"AI" business models projecting information asymmetry are now paradoxical as a business goal. Note: Data centers often naturally colocate with cold-climates, low-cost energy generation facilities, and fiber optic distance to major backbones/hubs. At a certain scale, Energy cost is more important than location and hardware. The US just broke its own horses leg with…

>If businesses have opportunity to cut their operational variable costs >25%, than one can be fairly certain these facilities won't be located on US soil.

Is there opportunity? Lower risks and energy prices may well outweigh the cost of tariffs. It is not like any other horse in the race has perfectly healthy legs.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#765

Post by claude_thinking »

potato3732842 wrote: post #706
claude_thinking wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM usage is still gaining traction. OpenAI may not be on top anymore, but they still have useful services, and they aren’t going under anytime soon. And time spent dealing with laws and regulations may decrease efficiency, leading to increased power consumption, resulting in greater water usage in datacenters for cooling and more greenhouse gas emissions. Controlling demand for services is something that could stop…

>And time spent dealing with laws and regulations may decrease efficiency, leading to increased power consumption, resulting in greater water usage in datacenters for cooling and more greenhouse gas emissions. They don't care about that if they get a regulatory moat around them.

There’s only so much of that you can do without it becoming a problem you have to deal with. There is a limited supply of water in any area of the earth.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#766

Post by z3c0 »

borgdefenser wrote: post #353
ch4s3 wrote: post #188

I'm surprised to see only one comment here addressing the issue of Chinese AI companies just flatly ignoring US copyright and IP laws/norms. I wonder if there is a viable path where we can facilitate some sort of economic remuneration for people who write and create visual art while not giving up the game to Chinese companies. This seems to be a thorny dilemma.

As a digital artist myself, it is quite simple. You have to sell physical objects. The art has to be printed out and that is the art. Anyone can get an image of Salvator Mundi for free too. That is not the art, that is an image. The art is the physical object that is the painting Salvator Mundi. It is no different than traditional art really, just at a different scale. You can buy really nice Picasso knock offs on eb…

I'm in agreement, and being an active artist in an art-centric city, I find myself having to explain this to other artists more than I'd like. Physical art is of measurable value, digital art simply is not. Claiming rights over an image of ones art is like claiming to own ones shadow.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#767

Post by claude_thinking »

breckenedge wrote: post #709
claude_thinking wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM usage is still gaining traction. OpenAI may not be on top anymore, but they still have useful services, and they aren’t going under anytime soon. And time spent dealing with laws and regulations may decrease efficiency, leading to increased power consumption, resulting in greater water usage in datacenters for cooling and more greenhouse gas emissions. Controlling demand for services is something that could stop…

If they’re not making money[1], and competitors are, or competitors are able to run at a negative for longer, then things could definitely wrap up for them quickly. To most consumers, LLMs will be a feature (of Google/Bing/X/Meta/OS), not a product itself. [1] https://www.itpro.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/peo...

> To most consumers, LLMs will be a feature (of Google/Bing/X/Meta/OS), not a product itself.

OpenAI rejected a 97.4B USD buyout in February 2025 and won’t be absorbed anytime soon: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/14/technology/openai-elon-mu...

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#768

Post by Dylan16807 »

avgd wrote: post #665
codedokode wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There isn't enough open, free data out there to make state of the art AI. But there are models trained on legal content (like Wikipedia or StackOverflow). Also, no human needs to read millions of pirated books to become intelligent.

> But there are models trained on legal content (like Wikipedia or StackOverflow) Literally all of them are trained on wikipedia and SO. But /none/ of them are /only/ trained on wikipedia and SO. They need much more than that. > Also, no human needs to read millions of pirated books to become intelligent. Obviously, LLM architectures that were inspired by GPT 2/3 are not learning like humans. There has never been any…

> If you agree to the notion that LLMs trained on copyrighted work are a form of IP infringement and not fair use, then training on their output is just data laundering and doesn't fix the issue.

It's fuzzy. I could imagine a situation where a primary LLM trained on copyrighted material is a big hazard and can't be released, but carefully monitored and filtered output could be declared copyright-safe, and then used to make a copyright-safe secondary LLM.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#769

Post by realityfactchex »

dmix wrote: post #718
breckenedge wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they’re not making money[1], and competitors are, or competitors are able to run at a negative for longer, then things could definitely wrap up for them quickly. To most consumers, LLMs will be a feature (of Google/Bing/X/Meta/OS), not a product itself. [1] https://www.itpro.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/peo...

I remember for years people on HN said Uber would never work as a profitable business because it spent a lot of VC money earlier on without having enough revenue to cover it all. It's been around for 16yrs now despite running in the black until 2023.

FYI: s/running in the black/running in the red/

[0] https://languagesystems.edu/history-of-idioms-to-be-in-black...

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#770

Post by Animats »

silvaring wrote: post #631
darkwater wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That parallels something Putin did in 2020. Putin called in the top two dozen oligarchs, and told them "Stay out of politics and your wealth won’t be touched. > Khodorkovsky [...] was arrested in 2003 Something doesn't square here

Its a typo, the article says it happened in the summer of 2000.

Right re 2000.
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