Earlier quoted context omitted.
CDs, software, and electronic media, yes. Physical books, no. You can't make archival copies.
You may copy, but you may not circumvent the copy protection.
Correct. For electronic media.
OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
121–130 of 845 posts
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can I download a book without paying for it, and print copies of it? Stash copies in my bathroom, the gym, my office, my bedroom etc. to basically have a copy on hand to study from whenever I have some free time? What about movies and music?
That's not a one-to-one analogy. The LLM isn't giving you the book, its giving you information it learned from the book. The analogous scenario is "Can I read a book and publish a blog post with all the information in that book, in my own words?", and under US copyright law, the answer is: Yes.
There's no analogous because the scale of it takes it to a whole different level and degree, and for all intents and purposes we tend to care about level and degree.
Me taking over control of the lemonade market in my neighbourhood wouldn't ever be a problem to anyone, a very minor annoyance; instead if I managed to corner the lemonade market of a whole continent it'd be a very different thing.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#123It probably needs to be a law not an executive order but I don't hate the idea. States have the power to make it prohibitively expensive to operate in those states, leaving people to either go to VPNs or use AI's hosted in other countries where they don't care if they're not following whatever new AI law California decides to pass. And companies would choose just to use datacenters not in the prohibitive states and b…
> Course if a company hosts in us-east-1, and allows access from California, would the inter state commerce clause not take effect and California would have no power anyways? California can't legislate how they serve a customer in a different state. They would have to comply when serving California customers within the state of California, regardless of where the dc is located. I.E. Under the CCPA it doesn't matter w…
>California can't legislate how they serve a customer in a different state. They would have to comply when serving California customers within the state of California, regardless of where the dc is located. I.E. Under the CCPA it doesn't matter where my data is stored, they still have to delete it upon my request.
I know this is what California thinks, I just personally don't see how this isn't inter state commerce.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#124>> In the proposal, OpenAI also said the U.S. needs “a copyright strategy that promotes the freedom to learn” and on “preserving American AI models’ ability to learn from copyrighted material.” Perhaps also symmetric "freedom to learn" from OpenAI models, with some provisions / naming convention? U.S. labs are limited in this way, while labs in China are not.
Gearing up for a fight between the two major industries based on exploitative business models: Copyright cartels (RIAA, MPAA) that monetized young artists without paying them much at all [1], vs the AI megalomaniacs who took all the work for free and used Kenyans at $2 an hour [2] so that they can raise "$7 trillion" for their AI infrastructure [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/LetsTalkMusic/comments/1fzyr0u/arti... [2] h…
Can't believe I'm actually rooting for the copyright cartels in this fight.
But that does make me think, that in a sane society with a functional legislature I wouldn't have to pick a dog in this fight. I'd have have enough faith in lawmakers and the political process to pursue a path towards copyright reform that reigns in abuses from both AI companies and megacorp rightsholders
Alas, for now I'm hoping that aforementioned megacorps sue OpenAI into a painful lesson.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#125It is interesting that it is not the Hollywood/Music/Entertainment copyright lobby (RIAA, MPAA etc.) that is lobbying US states to go after OpenAI and other American AI companies. It's the New York Times and various journalist and writers' unions that are leading the charge against American AI. American journalists and opinion piece writers want to kill American AI and let China and Russia have the global lead. Why?…
I think content creators want to be compensated for their work that's being used for commercial purposes. I think you're framing it in a way that makes it seem like they don't want to be compensated for working, they just want to stop other people from starting a new industry, which doesn't seem like a good faith understanding of the situation.
Business and tech idea: make it so that it's like Spotify for AI.
Everytime an answer is drawn from "certain learned weights," make it so that the source of that knowledge is paid cents per volume.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
when it comes to real people, they get sued into oblivion for downloading copyrighted content, even for the purpose of learning. but when facebook & openai do it, at a much larger scale, suddenly the laws must be changed.
Case in point - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
Swartz wasn’t “downloading copyrighted content…for the purpose of learning,” he was downloading with the intent to distribute. That doesn’t justify how he was treated. But it’s not analogous to the limited argument for LLMs that don’t regurgitate the copyrighted content.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
To the extent that this is how libraries function, yes. The part of that which doesn't apply is "print copies", at least not complete copies, but libraries often have photocopiers in them for fragments needed for research. AI models shouldn't do that either, IMO. But unlimited complete copies is the mistake the Internet Archive made, too.
I missed the part where OpenAI got library cards for all the libraries in the world. Is having a library card a requirement for being hired over there?
I don't need a card to read in the library, nor to use the photocopiers there, but it's merely one example anyway. (If it wasn't, you'd only need one library, any of the deposit libraries will do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit).
You also don't need permission, as a human, to read (and learn from) the internet in general. Machines by standard practice require such permission, hence robots.txt, and OpenAI's GPTBot complies with the robots.txt file and the company gives advice to web operators about how to disallow their bot.
How AI should be treated, more like a search index, or more like a mind that can learn by reading? Not my call. It's a new thing, and laws can be driven by economics or by moral outrage, and in this case those two driving forces are at odds.
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The analogous scenario is "Can I read a book and publish a blog post with all the information in that book, in my own words?" The analogous scenario is actually "Can I read a book that I obtained illegally and face no consequences for obtaining it illegally?" The answer is "Yes" there are no consequences for reading said book, for individuals or machines. But individuals can face serious consequences for obtaining…
> But individuals can face serious consequences for obtaining it illegally. Can they? Who has ever faced serious consequences for pirating books in the US?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
(Please no pedantry about how scientific papers aren't books)
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I missed the part where OpenAI got library cards for all the libraries in the world. Is having a library card a requirement for being hired over there?
I don't need a card to read in the library, nor to use the photocopiers there, but it's merely one example anyway. (If it wasn't, you'd only need one library, any of the deposit libraries will do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit ). You also don't need permission, as a human, to read (and learn from) the internet in general. Machines by standard practice require such permission, hence robots.txt, and OpenA…
We started with libraries and books, now you're moving the goalposts to websites.
Sidenote: I wouldn't even be mad if OpenAI built robots to go into all of the libraries and read all of the books. That would be amazing!
Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.
Can I download a book without paying for it, and print copies of it? Stash copies in my bathroom, the gym, my office, my bedroom etc. to basically have a copy on hand to study from whenever I have some free time? What about movies and music?
> Can I download a book without paying for it
Yes, you can read books without paying, if that's how it is offered.
And you can photocopy books you own for your own personal use. But again....the analogy is remembering/leaning from a book.