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OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#51

Post by echelon »

TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #23
sega_sai wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how this "freedom to learn" should apply to models, but not real people..

It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.

If models can learn for free, then the models (training code, inference code, training data, weights) should also be free. No copyright for anybody.

And if you sell the outputs of your model that you trained on free content, you shouldn't be able to hide behind trade secret.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#53

Post by crorella »

TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #23
sega_sai wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how this "freedom to learn" should apply to models, but not real people..

It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.

> just like a model could

It is not remotely the same, the companies training the models are stealing the content from the internet and then profiting from it when they charge for the use of those models.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#55

Post by ryoshu »

m1el wrote: post #32
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.

when it comes to real people, they get sued into oblivion for downloading copyrighted content, even for the purpose of learning. but when facebook & openai do it, at a much larger scale, suddenly the laws must be changed.

Case in point - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#56

Post by ajross »

triceratops wrote: post #36
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.

Can I download a book without paying for it, and print copies of it? Stash copies in my bathroom, the gym, my office, my bedroom etc. to basically have a copy on hand to study from whenever I have some free time? What about movies and music?

> Can I download a book without paying for it, and print copies of it?

No, but you can read a book, learn its contents, and then write and publish your own book to teach the information to others. The operation of an AI is rather closer to that than it is to copyright violation.

"Should" there be protections against AI training? Maybe! But copyright law as it stands is woefully inadequate to the task, and IMHO a lot of people aren't really treating with this. We need a functioning government to write well-considered laws for the benefit of all here. We'll see what we get.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#57

Post by wildpeaks »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #17
gkoberger wrote: post #7

I hate this game. I hate that Sam Altman publicly supported Trump (both financially and by showing up). Maybe I hate that he "had" to do this for the sake of his company, or maybe I hate that he _didn't_ have to do it and is a hypocrite. Maybe I just hate how easily laws can be shaped by $1M and a few nice words. Either way, I hate that it worked.

> I hate this game. This is tech. This is how it has always been. From Archemedes to DaVinci to Edison to Ford, technologists are always captured to serve the interests of those in power. Most modern technologists don't want to believe this. They grew up building an Internet that had a bit of countercultural flair to it and undermined a few subsets of entrenched elites (mass media, taxi cartels, etc.), so they convin…

It made sense to ponder given HN attracts people with the hacker mindset (the drive of curiosity to understand how things work and how to improve them, not merely accepting the status quo as gospel like the dry monkeys) and frustration is a good signal that something could be improved.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#58

Post by da_chicken »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #40
diego_sandoval wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume that the request is for it to apply to models in the way that it currently applies to humans. If a human buys a movie, he can watch it and learn about its contents, and then talk about those contents, and he can create a similar movie with a similar theme. If OpenAI buys a movie and shows it to their model, it's unclear whether the model can talk about the contents of the movie and create a similar mov…

Is OpenAI buying the movie, or just taking it? Since "buying" a movie (as it currently applies to humans) is just buying a limited license to it for private viewing, can't the copyright holder opt to limit the $4.99 license terms to human viewing, and charge $4999 for an AI training license? Or OpenAI could buy movies the way Disney does, by buying the actual copyright to the film.

> Since "buying" a movie is just buying a license to it, can't the copyright holder opt to limit the $4.99 license terms to human viewing, and charge $4999 for an AI training license?

That's exactly what already happens currently. Buying a movie on DVD doesn't give you the right to present it for hundreds of people. You need to pay for a public performance license or commercial licence. This is why a TV network or movie theatre can't just buy a DVD at Walmart and then show the movie as often as it likes.

Copyright doesn't just grant exclusive distribution rights. It grants exclusive use rights as well, and permits the owner to control how their work is used. Since AI rights are not granted by any existing licenses, and license terms generally reserve any rights not explicitly specified, feeding copyrighted works into an AI data model is a reserved right of the owner.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#59

Post by Terretta »

triceratops wrote: post #36
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.

Can I download a book without paying for it, and print copies of it? Stash copies in my bathroom, the gym, my office, my bedroom etc. to basically have a copy on hand to study from whenever I have some free time? What about movies and music?

Is the book online and accessible to your eyeballs through your open standards client tool, such that you can learn from seeing it?

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#60

Post by notatoad »

triceratops wrote: post #36
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.

Can I download a book without paying for it, and print copies of it? Stash copies in my bathroom, the gym, my office, my bedroom etc. to basically have a copy on hand to study from whenever I have some free time? What about movies and music?

>Can I download a book without paying for it

if you have evidence that openAI is doing this with books that are not freely available, i'm sure the publishers would absolutely love to hear about it.

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