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British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

theguardian.com

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Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#201

Post by ty6853 »

bmicraft wrote: post #172
necovek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

> The problem with any immigration service in the world is that they are dealing with non-citizens which lack most protections citizenship would have given them No, this is specifically a problem with the US if they withhold many those rights to non citizens. In developed countries existing as a person gives you those rights, not citizenship.

The US does not recognize non-immigrant (tourist/student/some work visas) aliens to be people, thus they don't have all the rights the people have like bearing arms (which is ascribed to people like the 4th amendment does, unlike elsewhere where sometimes citizens is used).

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#202

Post by kennysoona »

lttlrck wrote: post #196
kennysoona wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, discretion is a thing.

Discretion rubs both ways. Just because it didn't happen to your/our preference this time doesn't mean it never happens.

I don't see what point you're trying to make here.

The point was discretion should have been used this care regardless of other times it has been.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#203

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

gruez wrote: post #200
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Giving someone from an European country better treatment than someone from South America? Sounds like racism/white privilege to me. No, the proposal is to treat all such cases equivalently, regardless of national origin. That means no more prison/orange jump suit/inacessibility for Europeans or people from South America who screw up their visa conditions.

>No, the proposal is to treat all such cases equivalently, regardless of national origin. Your description of "a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences" might not have any explicit racial/ethnic element, but it's pretty obvious you're selecting for a certain demographic when you're using criteria like that. Or a…

> "a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences"

You seem to be replying to the wrong comment. I never said anything remotely like that.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#204

Post by ty6853 »

wat10000 wrote: post #180
mingus88 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? She violated the terms of her visa. That's illegal. She was detained at the border because of this. I agree that 10 days in lockup feel excessive for this, but I honestly, as someone who has traveled and crossed many borders, I have a hard time finding sympathy. I wouldn't expect to be treated well at many, many border crossings if I was found to have broken the law while I was in country. It sure would be nice…

My point is that it’s a low level of illegality that does not deserve a week or two in jail. We have the concept of proportionate punishment. You don’t go to jail for jaywalking. You do go to jail for grand theft. The legislature has decided that most immigration offenses are more like jaywalking. Such offenses should not result in being locked up for days. If you have a hard time finding sympathy for someone who mad…

Visa violations are mala prohibata offenses. I've found it nearly impossible to convince someone who believes such offenses should be overlooked that they shouldn't, or the other way around, because it cuts to the very core of our beliefs. You'll never change someone's mind on this unless you reshape their whole value system.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#206

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

gggtttkkk88 wrote: post #205
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't born in the USA.

[flagged]

My ancestors (going back to the 1400s) were the living embodiment of "the mutt mindset", only rooted in northern Europe. Someone who didn't want to fight in the Hugenot wars ran off to England, and the fucking began...

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#207

Post by ryan_lane »

decimalenough wrote: post #14

If she is on a "four-month backpacking trip around North America" and tried to return to the US, she has exceeded the 90-day limit allowed by the Visa Waiver Program (which counts days both in the US and "adjacent territories") and is now an illegal overstayer. The unpaid labor stuff and getting refused entry to Canada is icing on the cake. For the record, I'm no fan of ICE/CBP, but it looks like they're just enforci…

Overstay on a visa is a civil offense, not a criminal one. Yes, you're subject to deportation, but shouldn't be subject to detention.

So, no, ICE/CBP is not enforcing the law.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#208

Post by toast0 »

gruez wrote: post #167
cpncrunch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no mention of her using the visa waiver program. In fact it talks about her "tourist visa" (which allows up to 6 months).

>In fact it talks about her "tourist visa" (which allows up to 6 months). No, if you read the article carefully it never stated that she had a tourist visa at all. Only that she was told "she should have applied for a working visa, instead of a tourist visa". That's not the same as her possessing a tourist visa. Moreover a "tourist visa" (of 6 months) isn't something you can apply for at the border. If she just showe…

I think she drove (or walked, mode of transportation is unspecified) across the border into Canada, was told her visa was inadequate for her planned activity and to return to the US to apply for a proper visa, when she did return to the US, she was detained.

The article is confusing though. This BBC article has a much clearer and more detailed timeline of her travels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80y3yx1jdyo

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#209

Post by layman51 »

kennysoona wrote: post #197
ty6853 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation resolved in my passport being flagged, feds executing a fruitless search warrant (thankfully the doctors would not go through with the full cavity search but i am in debt for the warrant), and lawyers telling me I'm SOL. Everytime I go to the border I make sure my affairs are in order to be disappeared. It's good advice for anyone entering the US. Edit: just remembered the time they were enraged they ha…

> lawyers telling me I'm SOL. Why? On what basis?

I assume it has to do with a federal law that grants immigration agents broad searches and inspections and technically the Fourth Amendment does not fully apply as long as they are within 100 miles of the border or in the functional equivalent of a border (like an airport). The ACLU has a summary page about this.[1]

[1]: https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-...

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#210

Post by buyucu »

decimalenough wrote: post #152
buyucu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

detaining for 10 days is nonsense. Just deny entry and send them back.

Back to where? They were detained at the US land border after Canada denied them entry as well.

planes exist
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