Hot Take: People should be allowed to travel and live wherever they want, if they can work/pay for it and follow local laws.
The local laws include requiring a valid visa.
British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
151–160 of 257 posts
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#152If she is on a "four-month backpacking trip around North America" and tried to return to the US, she has exceeded the 90-day limit allowed by the Visa Waiver Program (which counts days both in the US and "adjacent territories") and is now an illegal overstayer. The unpaid labor stuff and getting refused entry to Canada is icing on the cake. For the record, I'm no fan of ICE/CBP, but it looks like they're just enforci…
detaining for 10 days is nonsense. Just deny entry and send them back.
Back to where? They were detained at the US land border after Canada denied them entry as well.
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not convinced it's the Americans responsibility to get her back to a suitable international airport as quickly as possible and put her in the next flight out. 10 days does seem excessive, but I don't see why she should be a priority either. I would imagine up to 5 working days fits within the realm of 'reasonable'.
A full work week in jail for something that isn’t even a crime is ridiculous.
It’s not strictly a crime, but immigration/visa fraud is a “removable offence”. It is the law that a person committing it will be removed. Sometimes immediate removal is not possible and these people must be detained and housed.
This is not all that ridiculous. What would be ridiculous is if people who have in the past, or would have by the virtue of entering into a country, committed immigration fraud were let in. Or if they were left unhoused and stateless, stuck at a border. Detaining and removing them is much more sensible.
Of course, ideally, it would be much more pleasant for the offender if they were given an option to enter anyway and leave on their own accord. But perhaps this is also an unreasonable expectation when one commits serious offences. Must we be nice to those who don’t respect our laws?
There is a lot to be said about our responsibilities to offenders, the paradox of tolerance, and similar.
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#154The US has always been a scary place to cross the border. I'm a Brit and have been to 50+ countries and the US is the only one that seems like it's trying to find a reason to arrest you. The others generally don't give problems or possibly just refuse entry and you have to go back. The other thing that puzzles me about the US is they give basically law abiding travellers all sorts of grief while at the same time lett…
The US doesn't just let people wander in. The US-Mexico border is incredibly militarized, with multiple lines of checkpoints on either side and a massive amount of technology and manpower to support patrolling the desert between ports. It's closer to a conflict border than it is to a typical international border.
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a right and a wrong way to enforce the law, though. Putting her in a literal prison and in an orange jumpsuit is overkill. Clearly she just screwed up and thought what she was doing was ok, but isn't a threat. Let her go back to the UK and no longer be eligible for ESTA. How is that not sufficient?
There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…
So do you support invalidating the citizenship of Elon Musk and Melania Trump because they both worked without authorization while on student and tourist visas?
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems shocking from European perspective. At least they did not shot her because of resisting or something.
She might experience the same thing if she planned a "work away" trip to the EU, now that UK is not part of the EU.
No. The EU doesn't treat people like that for such a minor offense.
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a right and a wrong way to enforce the law, though. Putting her in a literal prison and in an orange jumpsuit is overkill. Clearly she just screwed up and thought what she was doing was ok, but isn't a threat. Let her go back to the UK and no longer be eligible for ESTA. How is that not sufficient?
There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…
All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous.
It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences.
Enforce the law, sure, whatever, but the jumpsuit and 10 days in a detention center are barbaric and unnecessary. There's a reason this wouldn't have happened before a wannabe dictator was in power.
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#158The US has always been a scary place to cross the border. I'm a Brit and have been to 50+ countries and the US is the only one that seems like it's trying to find a reason to arrest you. The others generally don't give problems or possibly just refuse entry and you have to go back. The other thing that puzzles me about the US is they give basically law abiding travellers all sorts of grief while at the same time lett…
The US doesn't just let people wander in. The US-Mexico border is incredibly militarized, with multiple lines of checkpoints on either side and a massive amount of technology and manpower to support patrolling the desert between ports. It's closer to a conflict border than it is to a typical international border.
>The US doesn't just let people wander in. The US-Mexico border is incredibly militarized, with multiple lines of checkpoints on either side. [...] It's closer to the DMZ than it is to a typical international border.
Unless "multiple lines of checkpoints" actually means "multiple booths so visitors can be processed in parallel", this is most certainly false. Here's the San Ysidro boreder crossing in Tijuana:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5423767,-117.0289817,331m/da...
You can see a wide fanout to a bunch of booths, a secondary screening area north of that, and some administrative buildings. That's not "multiple lines of checkpoints". It's just one checkpoint. There might be more drug sniffer dogs than the average border crossing elsewhere, but for the typical traveler it's otherwise not that much different.
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#159A reasonable response to this for UK govt would be to check American tourists and see if they are properly complying with the law. Law is so complicated, no way you can't find at least one violation. Also, the article states that other people in the prison had been there for much longer time ("months"), but nobody writes articles about them.
Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue
#160If she is on a "four-month backpacking trip around North America" and tried to return to the US, she has exceeded the 90-day limit allowed by the Visa Waiver Program (which counts days both in the US and "adjacent territories") and is now an illegal overstayer. The unpaid labor stuff and getting refused entry to Canada is icing on the cake. For the record, I'm no fan of ICE/CBP, but it looks like they're just enforci…
There is no mention of her using the visa waiver program. In fact it talks about her "tourist visa" (which allows up to 6 months).