Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trump just wants the war to end. Ukraine doesn't want to surrender a chunk of its territory under bad terms, so they won't make a deal. Putin is more than happy to take a deal that means they win. Trump thinks that if he weakens Ukraine then they'll be more willing to take a bad deal. He also doesn't like Ukraine or Zelenskyy, so has no particular desire to do them a favour.
Ukraine already surrendered chunk of its territory few years ago. You think this time it will be different and Russia won't try to take Ukraine again once it rebuilds its military potential?
US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
881–890 of 1001 posts
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#882The EU should buy - or even license produce - Swedish Saab Gripens to help the Ukrainians resist. Low cost, simple to operate, and specially designed to fight Russian aggression.
They are not low cost, they cost nearly as much as an F35.
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#883I think this from French senator Claude Malhuret sums it up: This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you.…
Nothing like a bully POTUS to bring out all the rose-colored glasses praising the US for something that it never was. Set in the context of a representative of neocolonial France speaking about “the free world”. I don’t understand the causality. Trump reaches a new low and the slogans about the benevolent past reaches a new, even more naive high. > I think there’s a fatal misconception among many Americans about wher…
The U.S. cooperated with Canada to build cars together for generations. It’s a source of a lot of economic prosperity for both countries. And now the U.S. is threatening Canada with annexation while trying to destroy the current auto industry.
I know there would be bickering about the details because everyone has their own mood on how warmongering the U.S. is, and to whom. But whatever you want to qualify the past as, the present is considerably and undeniably different in contrast.
I guess maybe to Russians this would actually be backwards given the U.S. has always been aggressive towards them and now America and Russia are quickly becoming BFFs.
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#884And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…
How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#885Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of that is inherited from Germany not going fully armed again after II WW, and some capable countries not making nukes (Spain and Italy halted their advanced nuclear programs when the US pressured for it, offering them NATO coverage). How could the USA ask now European countries to not develop nukes? It's in the interest of the USA to cooperate and be part of defensive alliances. When USA goes to their wars and…
> It's in the interest of the USA to cooperate and be part of defensive alliances. Bulgaria, Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania are in NATO. "Defensive alliance" means the US bankrolls and guarantees their security, there is no two way street with them, they can do nothing for us. Finland is the most ridiculous case as Stalin could have easily swallowed it up in 1945 if it was in Russia's interes…
They can do a lot of harm when used against you. The part of Europe, which had fallen under Russian domination at the end of WWII, is where the most advanced Soviet weapons were developed and manufactured, because it had the most educated population and most the skilled specialists. Romania, for instance, produced a significant amount of electronics for Soviet weapons. After the USSR collapsed, these factories were converted to producing control boards for Western vacuum cleaners and microwaves. Would you rather see Russia overrun Romania and convert these factories back to producing military radars, missile guidance systems, and sonars for nuclear submarines whose sole purpose is to sneak up on American cities and set them on fire? The Soviet S-75 SAMs on Cuba that shot down the American U-2 spy plane piloted by Rudolf Anderson had Romanian electronics inside, as had many other weapons that killed Americans all over the world. Ukraine manufactured the best Soviet nuclear missiles, now the very same factories are subcontractors for NASA. Poland was known for its shipyards, Bulgaria was a powerhouse of ammo manufacturing.
Denying Russia access to this pool of talent for the promise of helping those countries in case of a Russian invasion is an incredible bargain, especially considering that such a guarantee sharply reduces the risk of invasion in the first place. You get it all for free, as long as the guarantee remains credible enough to deter the invasion. All the US president has to do is appear believable when he says that he'll nuke Moscow if Russia invades Poland. That doesn't cost much.
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#886And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…
> they have proven already that other's interests do not matter for them I disagree. Their interests matter greatly to them, they are just totally unequipped to understand who, and what, they are voting for.
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#887Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…
There is no sophisticated chess game being played here. These people are stupid as they are vindictive. No one in the US will benefit from this.
The president of peace who is not interested in war, but something much crueler, extortion and retribution which seems to be positioning the world for a real WW3. Not a Fox news theortical "Biden" inspired one.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy83r93l208o
"Poland announces military training plan for all men"
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#888Earlier quoted context omitted.
The F35 was an enormously expensive program only possible by increasing the production run through sales to partners/allies. It was predicated on a defense model currently burning down.
Absolutely. This isn’t just about the F16 and F35 either. It effectively ends or drastically changes the upcoming NGAD before they even get started. Any previous sales projections are irrelevant in a world where the USA has essentially remotely disabled an ally’s fighter jets without cause. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have to redesign major components of the NGAD in light of a budget that looks drastically differ…
https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2025/03/no-more-viable...
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#889If I was a defense minister in Western Europe right now I'd go looking at whatever the Dassault, Saab or other European based defense tech can provide. I'd also immediately halt any pilot training in the US. I can see shares in Raytheon, Lockheed, etc. taking losses in the next couple of quarters, I mean here we have a president that won't even spend money on its own defense tech for export, and is now actively shutt…
Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
#890I find some of the comments I’ve read today in this thread somewhat enlightening - there is intelligent conversation about the capabilities of the American hardware and its software. The sophistication of the F-35 cannot be debated. But the rest of the world doesn’t trust the US anymore, so it doesn’t matter how good it is - people would gladly explore a worse product because they see it as lower risk. That’s the rea…
Sure "tech" is hard to avoid but all the rest is still a massive loss for US companies and I suppose we'll see Europe and Asia working even hard to avoid American tech dependency now.
If political change is going to happen swiftly back to something more sane, it's going to be because of poor economic policy, and right now, that's looking like a given.