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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#221

Post by ascorbic »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

A week ago Trump killed the western alliance when he made it clear that allies could not rely on the US. This week he has killed the US weapons export business. Not a single country will trust them now. It would be quite an interesting thing to watch if we didn't have to live here.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#222

Post by 9283409232 »

Trump has had it out for Ukraine since he tried to bribe them. Telling them to find dirt on Biden or he would withhold military assistance. They didn't go for it and it is what directly led to his impeachment. While Russia absolutely owns Trump, I believe Trump would do this even if they didn't.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#223

Post by jcgrillo »

wyldfire wrote: post #190
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

The agenda that Trump advanced during campaigns was not "cut ourselves off from the rest of the world". Do his supporters really want this? What's the rationale he advances for this stance and the tarrifs? What would a president who was beholden to Russians do once elected? I mean -- what's the point of provoking Canada, of all countries? Canada as the 51st US state would be the new most populous state and would caus…

> Do his supporters really want this?

That's like asking whether a child wants the sugar crash that will come after eating the candy bar. They're not able to see that far ahead. They'll only "get it" when their lives have been made significantly harder, and even then it's not likely they'll be able to attribute their misery to the administration's policies--they could very easily be convinced to blame some minority group or foreign nation.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#224

Post by catlover76 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

[dead]

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#225

Post by jfengel »

darthrupert wrote: post #118

Will America ever be trusted again? Also, stop flagging news articles simply because they are slightly anti-Trump.

I don't know why anyone trusted us post 2016. Even with a sane President it was always clear that we were dangerously unreliable. And even if this insanity ends in four years it will always recur.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#226

Post by mistrial9 »

RandyOrion wrote: post #161

When totalitarian governments all start applauding what you're doing, using what you're doing as a distraction from a bad domestic situation as well as a justification for their dictatorships, you should know that something is totally screwed up. Yes, I'm talking about the totalitarian governments of China and Russia.

you are talking about (edit almost) a third of the entire human population, as if you know better. Reality says - random armchair Western Educated Individual Rich and Democratic does not rule the day for a third of humanity by claiming some political imperative.

More reality - the Muslim world is organized and very wealthy in spots. By confrontational and arrogant (see above) posturing and actions by Westerns, it drives power alliances to the Muslim world. So then there is one third of the actual population of the entire world, embracing the Muslim world economically and politically.

Secondly and perhaps more importantly, the backdrop economically for all parties is substantially about Oil and Gas. In the USA, the Oil and Gas interests have gained the upper hand, and they know very well how to apply it. Oil and Gas industry has all the capital and all the ambition to expand, fortify and entrench for the next multiple decades. It is rarely mentioned in the provocative and divisive social "news" that fills the media in the West each day.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#227

Post by eitland »

mmcnl wrote: post #151
eitland wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile Putin became silent after he forced Sweden and Finland to reconsider and join. The threat to putin wasn't Nato om his doorstep but a partially russian speaking country becoming a successful democracy and joining EU.

Somewhat surprisingly they are OK with Ukraine joining the EU [1]. > Ukraine has a sovereign right to join the European Union, but this “sovereignty” does not apply to military alliances, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said. https://www.politico.eu/article/dmitrt-peskov-kremlin-ukrain...

1. Kremlin says a lot of things so probably they also said Ukraine could join EU. The night before the full scale invasion they claimed they had no intention of attacking Ukraine.

2. Ukraine has the right to join whatever alliance it wants regardless of what russia means.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#228

Post by ta988 »

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources.

I am really amazed there are still almost half of the people able to twist reality to defend what is a direct attack against their own personal interests (they have proven already that other's interests do not matter for them). This sounds like self-flagellation seen from the outside.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#229

Post by otherme123 »

regularization wrote: post #150

I am tired of being taxed and having the money go to forever wars in other countries. Slaughtering Palestinians in Gaza, destabilizing Russia, and on and on. At least Trump is winding it down in one place. If Europeans think a hardline against Russia is important, then they can pay for it. We're on the other side of the ocean. This is why the Democrats lost. All they care about is war in the Ukraine. Bernie Sanders s…

A lot of that is inherited from Germany not going fully armed again after II WW, and some capable countries not making nukes (Spain and Italy halted their advanced nuclear programs when the US pressured for it, offering them NATO coverage). How could the USA ask now European countries to not develop nukes?

It's in the interest of the USA to cooperate and be part of defensive alliances. When USA goes to their wars and they ask for help, Europeans, Canadians and Australians oblige. If USA goes full isolationist, the rest of the world must develop their own nukes and their own forces. Goodbye to the dollar hegemony and the industrial military complex. USA fought hard with the USSR to achieve hegemony, and now that they got it they throw it away?

If that's what US wants, it's OK, but I believe some people don't fully understand the reality or the consequences. The US citizen don't pay taxes for Europe protection; Europe citizens pay taxes to buy american weapons.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#230

Post by epistasis »

RandyOrion wrote: post #161

When totalitarian governments all start applauding what you're doing, using what you're doing as a distraction from a bad domestic situation as well as a justification for their dictatorships, you should know that something is totally screwed up. Yes, I'm talking about the totalitarian governments of China and Russia.

To be fair to China, even they are "appalled" by what Trump is doing to cause chaos with Europe and to abandon Ukraine by holding talks about Ukraine without Ukraine:

https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/china-appalled-by-tru...

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