US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s • Hacker News Board

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#801

Post by Animats » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:13 PM UTC

Sweden will reportedly be supplying Ukraine with Saab-built Gripen fighters.[1][2] Maybe. Apparently Sweden has been holding off on transfer of 14 Gripens while Ukraine was learning to use and service F-16s.

The Gripen has advantages for Ukraine. It's a more rugged aircraft, with lower maintenance demands and lower operating cost. It can operate from very basic airstrips and roads. Saab boasts about this.[3] Their pitch mentions that servicing an aircraft between missions requires just one trained tech assisted by five other workers. The USAF likes to operate from big, well-equipped, secure air bases, and US aircraft tend to be designed for that environment.

The US has, in the past, tried to discourage other countries from buying the Gripen, to protect US manufacturers. That sales advantage just disappeared.

[1] https://min.news/en/military/a409faa4bc530b328f75ed6ccff23b7...

[2] https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/03/04/saab-ceo-pushes-for-s...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyD0liioY8E

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#802

Post by betteryourweb » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:14 PM UTC

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

this is the best news ever... all these other countries keep up conflict to keep the bankers happy while they exploit our resiurces for corrupt politicians and business men... Everyone crying about the economy, but our economy is already shit and extending out these corrupt ppl corrupt directives will only keep us (on the private side) in economic turmoil... We've been in perpetual conflict over 2 decades... It's time to focus on us...

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#803

Post by joshdavham » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:15 PM UTC

jmward01 wrote: post #722

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and the discussions are basically devoid of any new info or insight. If you were to take a random comment from each of these threads, youd probably have a hard time telling which came from where.

True. This post is just being used as a reason to continue previous threads with very little connection to the submission. I am of two minds on this. The first is 'I want my life to be about cool tech and interesting ideas' and the second is 'This is a critical moment in history so people need to discuss it more than anything else'. At this exact moment I lean towards the latter so I think it is, unfortunately, impor…

> This is a critical moment in history so people need to discuss it more than anything else

You may be correct on this, but I'm trying to keep in mind that we still have 4 more years of this and I think this may sorta be the new normal for the time being. I'd hate to see HN get distracted by every new drama Donald gets himself involved in till 2029.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#804

Post by philwelch » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:15 PM UTC

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

Did Ukraine buy any F-16’s? No. They’ve benefitted from the generosity of the United States since 2017, and thanks in large part to that generosity they succeeded in the defense of Kyiv in 2022. Now it’s 2025 and the war has been stalemated for a couple of years. Does the United States have an open-ended obligation to continue supporting, at its own expense, yet another forever war on the other side of the world?

The United States is still being taken for granted. And I have to laugh at the implication that the American economy will be ruined by the effect on the American arms industry when almost every American ally was neglecting their own military, instead taking American security guarantees for granted.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#805

Post by user3939382 » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:16 PM UTC

Sammi wrote: post #781

user3939382 wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes because only the USA has agency in this world. Russia didn't choose to invade and Ukrainians didn't choose to defend themselves. As someone from Europe this lack of perspective you showing here is exactly why we are tired of the US atm.

I’d say you lack perspective, this war started in 2014 not when Russia crossed the border. Russia’s agency isn’t going to extend to ignoring existential threats.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#806

Post by unethical_ban » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:20 PM UTC

mmcnl wrote: post #134

tw2347288 wrote: post #114

I'm glad that this discussion finally takes place, even though the discussion is of course flagged. You can flag here, but the mainstream press has picked up the issue: "Can the US switch off Europe’s weapons?" https://www.ft.com/content/1503a69e-13e4-4ee8-9d05-b9ce1f7cc... "Such is the concern that debate has turned to whether the US maintains secret so-called kill switches that would immobilise aircraft and weapons…

Whether there is a kill switch or not is somewhat irrelevant. There is a larger than nonzero chance that there is a kill switch, and the US cannot be trusted anymore. So we have to assume there is a kill switch.

With absolutely no military experience, I find this thought process hard to believe. Namely that the existence of backdoors is hard to conceal forever, and that their discovery would do worse damage than what Trump is doing now. Given most administrations seemed interested in maintaining friendship with Europe, I don't see the strategic benefit.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#807

Post by KaiserPro » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:21 PM UTC

xeckr wrote: post #712

epistasis wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to China, even they are "appalled" by what Trump is doing to cause chaos with Europe and to abandon Ukraine by holding talks about Ukraine without Ukraine: https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/china-appalled-by-tru...

Ah yes, the only country in the world whose array of official foreign policies includes a "no limits partnership" with russia. The statement of the named Chinese official is either a psyop, or he is, in the parlance of intelligence agencies, "going native". I'm leaning towards the former hypothesis.

> The statement of the named Chinese official is either a psyop

Or more likley China wants to sell to people, and thats hard if they are in a trade war, and spending money on a crash re-militarisation drive.

It also serves China well to be on the side of the EU as they can mop up some of the trade thats being destroyed by the USA.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#808

Post by jgilias » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:24 PM UTC

outer_web wrote: post #563

postingawayonhn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO as has existed is already over. Nobody has any faith that the US will follow through on its Article 5 obligations.

Ukraine is already quietly divisive in Congress. If Russia were to roll into Poland I could see a legislative declaration of war. In any event, maybe NATO just needs go squeak by four years without an Article 5 invocation to be back to normal.

With the current pace of how things are developing, we might not be able to squeak by four years.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#809

Post by 9283409232 » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:24 PM UTC

MaxPock wrote: post #262

9283409232 wrote: post #222

Trump has had it out for Ukraine since he tried to bribe them. Telling them to find dirt on Biden or he would withhold military assistance. They didn't go for it and it is what directly led to his impeachment. While Russia absolutely owns Trump, I believe Trump would do this even if they didn't.

Zelensky campaigning with democrats didn't help

Zelenskyy did not campaign with the Democrats. He met with both Dem and Republican senators throughout 2024.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#810

Post by KaiserPro » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 8:26 PM UTC

ferguess_k wrote: post #285

tananaev wrote: post #165

Build trust for a hundred years. Then flush it down the drain in two months.

That been said. Historically US got strong by screwing over its allies. For example to the UK during the second World War.

> US got strong by screwing over its allies

The biggest empire in the world paid for the US to re-tool its economy to produce arms for them. Later on the USA provided loans to continue that expansion.

Then Japan entered the war and it got personal.

Sure bretton-woods was a humiliation, but the Marshall plan was there to stop those humiliated allies from going communist.