US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s • Hacker News Board

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#671

Post by throwaway48476 » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:47 PM UTC

gip wrote: post #599

addicted wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…

Totally agree that Trump is trading long-term dominance for short-term gains. I think that in a few months, we will see the U.S. economy doing very well and somehow rebuilding its industrial base. In the long term, U.S. influence and wealth will make up a much smaller share of the world’s wealth than it does today.

I don't even see the short term gain.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#672

Post by throwaway48476 » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #266

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

I don't see this driven so much by ideology as much as musks drug fueled conversations with putin.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#673

Post by bitcurious » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

Chance-Device wrote: post #286

I think I’ll use this thread to make a prediction. At the end of Trump’s term: - Europe will still be using F-16s and F-35s - The US will still be in NATO, and will still be actively committed to the alliance - European defense spending will be massively higher, with manufacturing and supply chains that are far less easily disrupted - The US forces deployed to Europe will still be there, but will be bolstered by more…

One more prediction: a number of our allies will test domestically built nuclear weapons, including Germany, Poland, and South Korea.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#674

Post by rt276ah » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #629

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

> This is the end of an empire Empires are not good. > I am really amazed there are still almost half of the people able to twist reality to defend what is a direct attack against their own personal interests Self-interest is a middle-class religion. I think that a lot of Americans think that what we are doing is morally wrong. I also think that the idea that everybody else is going to shun our military exports over…

> they're partnering with Germany or France or the UK to invade Russia

Can we stop this nonsense on both sides? Russia does not want to invade NATO countries, and for sure Germany, France and the UK do not want to invade Russia.

Britain is hawkish because they love continental powers fighting against each other and pulling the strings. They will not send their 50,000 soldiers to Moscow.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#675

Post by epistasis » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #644

epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

[flagged]

Some truth in your comment, but Obama never promised to dismantle American Empire and never had any rhetoric even close to something like that.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#676

Post by tlogan » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

Buying high-tech American weapons comes with an implicit condition: they can only be used with U.S. approval.

The U.S. has long leveraged this strategy to control governments. Do you think Saudi Arabia could use its American-made jets to attack Israel?

Now, Trump is pressuring Ukraine to start negotiation under these terms:

1. Allowing parts of Ukraine to be annexed,

2. Permanently blocking NATO membership, and

3. Signing a “mineral deal” to sell resources to the U.S. at cut-rate prices.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#677

Post by drysine » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

labster wrote: post #46

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

While I agree with you, I think the problem goes beyond military equipment. There’s a lot of risk now in doing business with America in every field, because it’s so unpredictable. Why get cloud or SaaS from the US if they’re one executive order away from being forced to break the GDPR — or shut off service completely, like Maxar in Ukraine. Why build supply chains through America if the price of raw materials can arb…

>There’s a lot of risk now in doing business with America in every field, because it’s so unpredictable.

That's how the rest of the world has been doing business with America, Europe will get used to this too.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#678

Post by bitcurious » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

anuraj wrote: post #546

[flagged]

If your "energy security" is dependent on a belligerent state, you don't have energy security. This was something Trump himself has repeatedly criticized the Europeans for, so if you lead with "Trump was right" follow that thread.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#679

Post by MrDresden » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

grej wrote: post #236

European defence companies are about to see the biggest demand boom of our lifetime.

Most of them have had double digits growth in their stock price over the last few days[0]:

"Britain’s BAE Systems rose by 15% on Monday, Germany’s Rheinmetall gained 14%, France’s Thales increased 16% and Italy’s Leonardo was also up 16%. In London the surge in defence related shares helped to push the FTSE 100 to a new record high"

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/03/european-de...

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#680

Post by gip » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 5:53 PM UTC

827a wrote: post #520

epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

It always ends up happening how you least expect it, though maybe that expectation is evidence that it was bound to happen via a different road anyway. At the end of the day, the problem isn't really Trump. The American Empire isn't going to end because its only exporting $300B of military might to the world instead of $600B, when no one else on the planet is scratching $50B (I made these numbers up as an illustratio…

That’s fine if Trump wants to spend less or even withdraw from NATO.

Doing it like it just did with basically no notice is a stabbing in the back to former allies of the US. And Republicans are also not saying much.

That behavior should and very likely will not be forgotten by Europe.

The next phase that makes sense is an iron curtain between 4 blocks (US, Europe, Russia, China). Like during the Cold War, it is the approach that will minimize the risk of war.