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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#551

Post by bmitc »

austin-cheney wrote: post #465
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

> I am really amazed there are still almost half of the people able to twist reality to defend… Most people everywhere generally believe what their social reference group tells them to believe. Human nature, I guess.

It's the Internet.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#552

Post by epistasis »

hobofan wrote: post #342
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

> when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world You are saying this as a hypothetical that never happened, right?

That's what the "would be" indicates directly in front of the part you quoted. And in reference to your comment below, I am definitely not referencing Obama, that doesn't even make sense because he did not dismantle American Empire in his two terms, in addition to not really being a leftist at all.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#553

Post by Etheryte »

regularization wrote: post #331
otherme123 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that is inherited from Germany not going fully armed again after II WW, and some capable countries not making nukes (Spain and Italy halted their advanced nuclear programs when the US pressured for it, offering them NATO coverage). How could the USA ask now European countries to not develop nukes? It's in the interest of the USA to cooperate and be part of defensive alliances. When USA goes to their wars and…

> It's in the interest of the USA to cooperate and be part of defensive alliances. Bulgaria, Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania are in NATO. "Defensive alliance" means the US bankrolls and guarantees their security, there is no two way street with them, they can do nothing for us. Finland is the most ridiculous case as Stalin could have easily swallowed it up in 1945 if it was in Russia's interes…

The US is the only country to ever invoke NATO article 5. When the US did, militaries from all countries you listed came and fought the war in a far away land for roughly nothing at all. I can see where you're coming from with all your points, but I think they're very shortsighted. The money the US pours into NATO is minuscule compared to the income it receives from the petrodollar system. Already today we're seeing the nuclear weapons program discussion restart in many countries in Europe. The end result is a US that spends less on other countries, yes, but also a US that receives an order of magnitude less income from those countries than it previously did. All things considered, it will be a US with both less income and less influence.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#554

Post by dtquad »

epistasis wrote: post #266
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

>I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world.

Most leftist political parties in Scandinavia and the Baltics manages to be be both pro-Palestine, pro-NATO, and pro-Ukraine. They don't seen any contradiction because there aren't any.

Why do some American leftists follow this 3rd worldist neo-Maoist thinking that Western civilization needs to burn down before you can get free healthcare and free college?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#555

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

exe34 wrote: post #473
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

I'm the most cynical person I know, and somehow I spent 38 years thinking the US would always be on top, and despite the smaller scale invasions and the odd assassination, would maintain world peace and fund prosperity for all in terms of fundamental research. I knew that democracy was fragile and that losing it could happen to all of us - except the US. somehow I believed their separation of powers would always work…

The US has always been a plutocracy with democratic trimmings. Exactly like ancient Rome.

The difference now is that the plutocrats are high on their own supply.

There used to be an understanding that if they didn't give something back they'd end up hanging from a lamp post.

Now they've decided the little people and their silly little planet are disposable, and AI, magic robots, and a cult of narcissism will replace them.

Absolutely lunacy, with consequences as expected.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#556

Post by eitland »

knubie wrote: post #364
sorokod wrote: post #158

The Danish air force is likely experiencing a buyers remorse about their batch of F35s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Danish_Air_Force

Yes I'm sure the Danes are wishing they had purchased their fifth generation fighters from China or Russia instead.

Alternatively they could have went with not 5 generation, but still extremely good Gripen.

It's electronic warfare capabilities have reportedly surprised Nato pilots in exercises before.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#557

Post by alabastervlog »

colechristensen wrote: post #508
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

Calling Republicans jealous and afraid is a good way to make yourself feel better but very much misses the character of what's happening. The "I'm a superior son of a bitch" attitude of leftists is gross. Saying "they're just jealous" is something you tell children. What you're saying here is "we're better than everyone else and everyone else disagrees with my positions because they envy how awesome we are".

Democrats have a real problem with saying true but demeaning things that you have to discuss when coming up with strategy, out loud in public.

Hillary’s “deplorables” thing was maybe the most prominent example. Her point was that democrats who think that all republicans are committed to evil positions we can’t compromise with or entertain isn’t correct! Only about a third of them are, according to the data. The rest could maybe be reached or worked-with!

This is true shit you say in blunt terms in a strategy meeting or nerdy discussion groups, not in public, because poli sci is just full of demeaning stuff about voters, because they are stupid and often evil and if you study democracy soberly that’s what you’ll find, and you have to grapple with it to act effectively, but you don’t say it in public because most voters also don’t know that stuff because they’re not poli sci nerds. She, and/or her speech writers, had been around strategists and wonks too much.

[edit] on the other hand, one wonders how much this really matters when Trump wins while saying worse things about all kinds of folks. The way the media approach and characterize and amplify (or don’t) the messages may matter more than what’s actually said.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#558

Post by DFHippie »

Etheryte wrote: post #516
nxm wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh… a few jets can’t compare to level of aid American tax payer has given the past few years. More than OK with France finally doing something.

Europe has given more aid to Ukraine in total numbers than America if I'm not mistaken? So I'm not really sure if I see what you mean.

Yes, Europe has given more aid overall. And certainly much more per capita in many countries. The US has given more military aid, but not that much more.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#559

Post by agsqwe »

touisteur wrote: post #482
jopsen wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice it goes both ways... Lots of critical things for the US is made exclusively in Europe. Lots of medicin that people rely on daily would be unavailable if EU/US trade broke down completely.

Aside from life-saving medicine, I was thinking that the un-availability (not 'available with tariffs' but 'we're not selling it to the US anymore') of Ozempic in the US might become a political problem, maybe more so than many other trade-war hits. Maybe it's easy to manufacture it locally but the time-gap until it's up and running might be too much to swallow...

US has Eli Lilly with a competing product (Tirzepatide)

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#560

Post by gjsman-1000 »

verandaguy wrote: post #318
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

The myth of how much harm "leftists" can do/are doing in the US is probably what got you all here. It's another McCarthyist boogeyman, and it's not even being sold well -- a lot of the marketing's just outright lies, and people are eating that up.

Nonsense, you have no idea how many conservatives are still mad the “leftists” forced the baker to make a custom cake endorsing gay marriage against his beliefs. (Not sell an off the shelf one, he was okay with that, a customized cake.)

That’s the kind of persecution they are talking, and angry, about. If that incident had not happened, Trump may never have been elected.

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