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China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

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Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#281

Post by tho3i2424234 »

Fricken wrote: post #216
somelamer567 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US stole it's IP as well when it was behind. Sam Slater was known as "The Founder of the American Factory System" in the US. In the UK he was known as "Slater the Traitor", because he stole some very important IP. Adam Smith wasn't a big fan of IP either. He was all about owning the means of production. China was taking notes. The dog ate America's homework.

Indeed.

India which was at that was relatively in a good economic state, should've been a industrial super-power. Except, the "benign" British scuttled not only industrialization, but India's own traditional education and social systems.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#282

Post by throwaway2037 »

ty6853 wrote: post #168
redserk wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What freedoms would they lose?

Right to bear arms (only Yemen and Idlib is stronger here) and some of the loosest regulations on non commercial speech.

Right to bear arms? How about Finland or Switzerland? It is pretty easy to own guns in both places.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#283

Post by YZF »

suraci wrote: post #266
YZF wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Yes. Everyone knows I'm referring to the two Michaels. The party that is rogue in this whole story is China. Even if the conduct of the US authorities here is/was suspect the retaliatory arrests is how the Mafia operates. I am not a fan of the way the US and Canada behaved here but at the end of the day for the most part Meng Wanzhou was not locked up, she had a lux…

> Even if the conduct of the US authorities here is/was suspect the retaliatory arrests is how the Mafia operates when i said "Many Americans are complicit through their silence, denials, and defense." i didn't expect such a combo...

I am not an American. So that's one off your combo.

I was also not silent or defensive of the specific action of arresting her. I thought that was a mistake by Canada and said so at the time. I still think so. I'm not denying anything?

I still stand by what I said though about the rogue actor here being China. That is a big picture statement. It means that even if the actions of the US or Canada were wrong, they were within what we consider the rule of law. China's retaliatory actions were not. I'll take the rule of law over a dictatorship any day with all its problems.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#284

Post by Philpax »

ForTheKidz wrote: post #220
Philpax wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a nice sentiment and I agree, but I'm not sure we'll see this applied to AI going forward. These training runs cost a lot of money - at some point, every player in the game will realise that they need to charge something or they'll left without enough chips to play in the next round. DeepSeek's altruism has taken them far, but they have costs, too, and High Flyer / their personal warchest can only take them so f…

There are models with open training as well as weights. It's not chatgpt, but that trained model can be fully audited and reused without further training. I think for most daily use I'd be fine using a greatly outdated model. Open source has always relied on contributors eating costs—even just the opportunity cost of contributing time. FLOSS software is slow, much slower than VC-funded explosive growth, but it's hard…

It'll get increasingly difficult for open models to keep up with proprietary frontier models as the costs involved increase. Yes, there will always be older open models available, but at some point, they just won't be as competitively useful.

Your code assistant that can output a file's worth of code will pale in comparison to systems that can create entire projects in seconds. If it costs billions to reproduce the latter, who's going to do it and give it away for free?

There's a possible solution here in the form of distributed training, but that's still tentative and will always be at a lag to the centralised training the big players can do.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#285

Post by tw1984 »

rozenmd wrote: post #47
scrollaway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an EU-based employer, I'm seeing a post-WW2 soviet vs usa style defection of engineers between USA and Europe. By the way, if anyone US-based is in this situation and wants to "defect" to an EU-job, send me a message, I can help you.

My hiring manager mates are seeing this in Australia too. Sydney's beaches and weather helps a bit too.

[flagged]

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#286

Post by throwaway2037 »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #116
yieldcrv wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of developed countries like across Europe and Singapore dont have the same geopolitical history with China as the US does, as such the Sinophobia isn’t really there Many people really enjoyed Shanghai and other cities and are recipients of expansive social safety nets of China If you’re middle class and in a big city or some of the planned cities, China is fine, not without its difficulty of adjusting to, some…

> expansive social safety nets of China can you provide more detail on what you mean by this? Are there labor laws preventing 996, for example? what kind of medical care is there?

To me, the big three of "social safety net" is education, medical care, and retirement pension. For normies, I doubt any of those are better than other highly developed democracies.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#287

Post by ty6853 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #282
ty6853 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right to bear arms (only Yemen and Idlib is stronger here) and some of the loosest regulations on non commercial speech.

Right to bear arms? How about Finland or Switzerland? It is pretty easy to own guns in both places.

Where I live now you can 3d print an unregistered and unserialized pistol then stuff it under your shirt (loaded) and walk into the unsecured part of a public airport without breaking the law, all with zero paperwork or licenses or checks. Can I do that in Switzerland?

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#288

Post by throwaway2037 »

rmrf100 wrote: post #86

Just recall what the United States did to Huawei's CFO Meng Wanzhou at that time, and it will be very understandable now.

Do you think Canada shares any blame? And do you think she is guilty of her crimes (trading with Iran)?

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#289

Post by jltsiren »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #268
jltsiren wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries must be weighted by risk. Right now, there is a high risk that researchers funded by grants or working in government labs will lose their jobs and faculty will lose their grants and labs. Industry researchers are in a more stable situation, even though layoffs may be more common than on the average. And if we focus specifically on the academia, American salaries have never been that high. Sure the numbers in…

> I've worked at a foreign university where grad students on dual income could buy a starter home. Where? And why didn't you stay?

Finland.

Back when I was in the job market and looking for a permanent position, we had a rather silly government that did poorly justified budget cuts. Academic positions were scarce at the time. I was looking for a position in Europe, but I somehow ended up accepting an offer from the US. I had never thought seriously about moving to the US, but when you are in the academia, you learn to take the opportunities you can find.

That used to be the American advantage. You had a less competitive academic job market and higher chances of winning grants. The downsides were a bit lower position in the social and economic hierarchy than in Europe. And the American way of life, which is not for everyone.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#290

Post by nneonneo »

assimpleaspossi wrote: post #218
nneonneo wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really not sure if you're joking or not, but Meng Wanzhou ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou ) was a major turning point for China-US and China-Canada relations. She was detained in Vancouver on the request of the US DoJ and held in house arrest for three years - after which they dropped all the charges and let her go back to China. She was absolutely used as a bargaining chip by the US government.

>>...under the indictment of bank and wire fraud regarding financial transactions in violation of U.S. sanctions against Iran by Skycom, which had functioned as Huawei's Iran-based subsidiary. On 24 September 2021, the DOJ announced it had reached a plea bargain with Meng to resolve the case through a deferred prosecution agreement... iow, she committed a crime and was released after agreeing to a plea bargan. They d…

The charges were dismissed. Her “plea bargain” had her deny all the key charges and simply admit to one false statement - which did not amount to any criminal wrongdoing.

> The Department of Justice said it would move to dismiss all the charges against Meng when the deferral period ends on 21 December 2022…

> On 1 December 2022, the prosecution asked a judge to dismiss bank fraud and other charges against her,[58] and the judge dismissed the charges.[17]

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