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An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#261

Post by crowselect »

scottbez1 wrote: post #238
crowselect wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "we have x million monthly users" is "a consumer’s personal information"? That's information about how many consumers you have, but it's not personal

But, "we have x million monthly users _in Arizona_" would be using your personal data, from a legal standpoint. And if they provide that aggregate data in exchange for money, they are selling your personal data (but not in the way many people think of it, like in a Google/FB sense of building an individualized profile and selling ads against that). Mozilla might be doing very sketchy things with your data, but it's a…

I don’t think that’s true:

Per: https://thecpra.org/#1798.145(a)(6)

> Exemptions: > (6) Collect, use, retain, sell, share, or disclose consumers’ personal information that is deidentified or aggregate consumer information.

I understand that people who have a vested interest in eroding any possibility of online privacy and data protection would want us to believe these laws are vague and overreaching - but that doesn’t mean they actually are vague and overreaching.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#262

Post by KingOfCoders »

usr1106 wrote: post #109
diggernet wrote: post #67

> You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. You don't need a license for data you never see. When I use Firefox to type a comment on HN, that comment goes from me to HN. It doesn'…

Right. Some people want Sync, Pocket, oneline translation, etc. Others like me just want a browser. There should be a simple option to choose between a browser and some multifunction beast that some people and even more managers at Mozilla are dreaming of.

"There should be a simple option to choose between a browser"

Less money, not going to happen.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#263

Post by KingOfCoders »

teshaq wrote: post #34

While I agree with folks that this is a step backwards in privacy, I think it’s a good exercise to zoom out and understand Firefox’s position. The browser market is highly competitive, and Mozilla’s competitors have orders of magnitude more resources at their disposal. As we all know Firefox’s market share has been dropping over the past years and unfortunately the revenue supporting all of Mozilla comes predominantl…

Or, hear me out, surprising, crazy, I know: Sell the browser!

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#265

Post by brookst »

0xFEE1DEAD wrote: post #216
rtpg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there _is_ some daylight between what people hear when someone says "Firefox is selling your data" and, for example, Firefox using your IP address to put you in a rough country-level geoblock to determine whether to show you an ad that was sold to all users in a country. Yet the second one, which I think would be very much considered close to harmless from my perspective (compared to an alternative of "an…

I chose firefox because I don’t want my browser to build an ad network to sell targeted ads. And I definitely don't want this: > You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This doe…

It’s a weird term, but I’m not sure how “for the purpose of doing as you request” is terrible. To me that means that when you type a url, they have the right to do a DNS lookup for it.

Is there some interpretation where “for the purpose of doing as you request” means any purpose they want?

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#266

Post by BSDobelix »

fph wrote: post #256
BSDobelix wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to https://librewolf.net/

Is it a reputable project? What credentials does it have?

Well it's part of the Debian Main-repo, FreeBSD-Ports, FlatHub and brew on MacOS:

https://librewolf.net/installation/

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#267

Post by brookst »

ttpphd wrote: post #251
0xFEE1DEAD wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chose firefox because I don’t want my browser to build an ad network to sell targeted ads. And I definitely don't want this: > You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This doe…

Exactly. Why is my browser serving me advertising in the first place? Because Mozilla is an advertising company now.

There are only two ways to generate revenue: direct and indirect. Nobody will pay for a browser.

I don’t use Firefox and this whole thing is distasteful, but I’m not sure how they’re supposed to cover operating expenses without indirect monetization, or what for of indirect other than ads would work.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#268

Post by lightedman »

mmooss wrote: post #182
thisislife2 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, any application that even collects personal data is problematic for me. Personal data of a user has a value, and a large repository of personal data, of millions of users, makes the company valuable too. Any data collected can be monetised, if not immediately (as part of the company's business model) or in the future (when the company is sold). With Mozilla, for example, displaying sponsored links using F…

I'm not sure you and they agree on the meaning of collect: If you input personal data into Firefox - e.g., an email you type in a Gmail - then they 'collect' it. Unless you use Firefox only for anonymous purposes, some data must pass through Firefox. > With Mozilla, for example, displaying sponsored links using Firefox Suggest ( https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-news/fi ... ) means collecting and s…

"That article says it's only opt-in, so you are safe:"

Funny, I never opt-in to that garbage - and yet Firefox keeps trying to auto-recommend things to me. It does this even in the Firefox Quantum mobile browser.

I don't think Mozilla is being 100% honest.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#270

Post by teddyh »

saagarjha wrote: post #217
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, if legal recommends wording for your TOS you should probably listen to them.

Legal is there to advise you. Sometimes what legal tells you is not in the best interests of your company. A good legal team will work with you to identify when maximal risk-averseness is not the right strategy.

A normal legal team (as opposed to a good one) will always recommend whatever is virtually guaranteed not to come back to bite them.
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