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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#301

Post by UncleOxidant »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #28

It seems unframeworky Memory, CPU and GPU once piece of metal, sitting in a tiny box. A regular PC in a regular case, it a lot more modular and upgradable. It does seem like an interesting box, and matches against Apple Studio I would presume. Yet customers of Apple are used to having (near) 0 user modifiable parts. It might well have a good market, It might b a great box. It is unframeworky.

I put in a pre-order - they sold out the first batch pretty quickly today so I won't be getting it till Q3. The price seems quite decent. Framework has a good reputation. I've been watching for the HP Strix Halo miniPC since they announced early in the year, but it still says "coming soon" and no pricing. I suspect the Framework price will come in lower than the HP. Also, Framework is a lot more transparent than HP.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#302

Post by UncleOxidant »

rdedev wrote: post #55
ThinkBeat wrote: post #28

It seems unframeworky Memory, CPU and GPU once piece of metal, sitting in a tiny box. A regular PC in a regular case, it a lot more modular and upgradable. It does seem like an interesting box, and matches against Apple Studio I would presume. Yet customers of Apple are used to having (near) 0 user modifiable parts. It might well have a good market, It might b a great box. It is unframeworky.

https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY The ceo kind of explains why in this video. In essence it seems to be a limitation of the chip from AMD

Yep. They could've had socketed RAM but they wouldn't have gotten the same bandwidth and that's really important for running things like LLMs.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#303

Post by UncleOxidant »

fragmede wrote: post #75
rdedev wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY The ceo kind of explains why in this video. In essence it seems to be a limitation of the chip from AMD

So don't make it then? If a particular vendor's product isn't in line with the company's mission, the CEO is the one to make the call to proceed with manufacturing. edit: it's not for me and I can totally just not buy one, but if one identified with their original mission and sees this as betrayal of that, it'd be hard to justify getting a framework laptop when it's their turn to upgrade.

They just got me as a new customer with this AI miniPC. It's the first Framework product I've bought.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#304

Post by lillecarl »

tencentshill wrote: post #92
coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

Having seen how students treat school-provided Chromebooks, those IO modules will get lost and damaged at light speed.

The great thing about IO modules is that if they outer side is damaged you can just replace it

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#305

Post by frosting1337 »

rkagerer wrote: post #251
aroman wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol - it's not that Cloudflare can't handle the traffic. It's the _framework_ can't handle the traffic and set up Cloudflare to ratelimit entry using their Waiting Room[0] product. Clearly poorly messaged if it made you think it was a Cloudflare capacity issue! [0] https://www.cloudflare.com/application-services/products/wai...

WTF indeed, Framework. The whole point of a CDN is to keep your website operational when the number of visits scale up. A "waiting room" might as well be a 404. Here's a screenshot of https://frame.work/ca/en/blog/category/news : https://i.imgur.com/7BcLyCX.png There's nothing up there that couldn't be statically cached.

Except, you know, the entire dynamic functionality of purchasing everything. Taht can't be cached.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#306

Post by boricj »

dangus wrote: post #275
boricj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was available when I started to build my homelab server, I'd have bought it. My requirements were a low-power but modern and punchy mini-ITX board with an AMD processor in a very compact build with a 48v DC power supply and SmartOS. That was basically unobtainium and I've compromised down to a AliExpress mini-ITX motherboard with a mobile AMD CPU, a AM5 heatsink and firmware that is... flavorful, powered by a…

No offense but your requirements make very little sense for that use case, unless you really needed PCI-Express. I’d have bought a Beelink or similar mini PC if I wanted small size and low power along with low price. You lose some modularity compared to ITX boards but I am almost certain you spent more money and deal with more noise and maybe even more power consumption. For me personally my homelab PC is just an ATX…

Originally, the homelab was supposed to be located inside a 6U, 30cm deep, encased 19" rack. That would fit flush and very snugly just below my encased electrical panel, located right at the entrance inside my apartment.

That makes noise (a glass panel separates the rack from the entrance), power (can't risk overheating in an enclosed closet) and space (6U and 25cm of usable depth is an exceedingly small volume for a homelab) all important factors at the same time. I also wanted at least 2.5 Gib Ethernet, as much DDR5 RAM and CPU cores as I could chuck into it and two NVMe slots. I rejected a mini PC due to noise concerns and I wanted standardized parts and modularity.

I have a AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS, 64 GiB of RAM and terabytes of NVMe in less than 4 liters of volume without sacrificing modularity. I've mounted an AMD Wraith Stealth, which is a comically oversized CPU cooling fan for a 35W TDP thermal load. It's fast, small, silent, overkill and still fits standard parts.

I do want to get rid of the ridiculously noisy TFX power supply at some point, most likely for a 48v DC ATX power supply. Unfortunately, since I like stupid ideas I want a fully 48v DC powered rack and Power-over-Ethernet throughout my apartment to get rid of as many power supplies and fans as I can. I've started accumulating parts for it (like a 48v 2.5 Gib 10 port PoE switch, PoE powered gigabit switches and PoE-to-12VDC adapters), but I'm still not sure how I'll pull it off in the end since I'm way off the beaten path.

At this point you're probably wondering why I do things that way. I'm not sure myself, but seeing what I tend to do for fun it's probably best not to ask, lest the universe stops its suspension of disbelief while I'm in the middle of performing yet another heretical act on some poor unsuspecting piece of hardware or software.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#308

Post by rowanG077 »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #208
coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

I don’t quite get why framework focuses so much on Intel and AMD. ARM laptops are in the rise, and don’t need active cooling. It’s hard for me to think of upgrading to another laptop with fans when so many fanless (I.e.: silent) options are available.

You trade no incidental fan noise and better idle power for ass performance and "too bad this app you used for years doesn't work". I don't think that's even close to a good deal.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#309

Post by transpute »

starkparker wrote: post #121

I'm still outright begging Framework to get better at supporting the products that it's already shipping (and to also just... _actually ship them_ to more places). Get more third parties manufacturing compatible components and expansions that are compatible across those products in order to fulfill the stated goal of solving the industry's extensible and modular hardware deserts that exist outside of the lowest-end S…

> seeing this weird Desktop ready to go before the 12 is a boggling decision

There is substantial x86 market demand for local inference that can compete with Apple. AMD/Framework 128GB for $2K will be competitive.

> A mini-ITX board that's less modular than a commodity mini-ITX board

LLMs need LPDIMM for high-bandwidth memory and efficient power. mITX board allows interop with a galaxy of existing mITX cases, including NAS.

> same or worse firmware and driver stability or compatibility issues that still haven't been solved on the 7040-series 13 mainboards a year after shipping them, not because Framework is a terrible company but because their support from AMD has apparently been a nightmare.

We're inching towards AMD's 2026 target for open-source firmware, which will hopefully help all AMD OEMs.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#310

Post by pge »

MadnessASAP wrote: post #234
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t quite get why framework focuses so much on Intel and AMD. ARM laptops are in the rise, and don’t need active cooling. It’s hard for me to think of upgrading to another laptop with fans when so many fanless (I.e.: silent) options are available.

To the best of my knowledge the ARM ecosystem is an absolute pain to work in, you can get Phone/Tablet SoCs painfully encumbered with out of date drivers and binary blobs. Or you can get enormous server processors that will cost $1000+. There just isn't much that's suitable for making a desktop or laptop that would meet Frameworks markets expectations.

what about the Snapdragon? Microsoft is using in their ARM laptops
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