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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#191

Post by mjg59 »

stouset wrote: post #88
wkat4242 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but I have a feeling it might be designed to rip off in this situation. I'm more surprised the wing rupture didn't cause a fire/explosion because this is where most of the fuel is stored.

I seriously, seriously doubt it. The wings are so utterly critical to flight I can’t possibly imagine any situation they’d be engineered to snap off under. Further, that’s where the fuel is and any crash involving a wing rupture is dramatically more dangerous given the risk of fire. Hell even in a crash landing like this you want the plane to stay upright and stable.

It's probably preferable to have the wing break off than for it to apply sufficient stress to the fuselage that the fuselage disintegrates - you're going to lose the wing either way and if you're in the air that's going to be bad, but if you're on or near the ground it's probably preferable to have an intact fuselage?

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#192

Post by markus_zhang »

moralestapia wrote: post #97
mikeyouse wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know they need to control any possibility of a fire but man would it be a rude awakening to escape a significant plane crash, release your seatbelt while hanging upside down, make it to the exit door and then get sprayed in the face with cold water on a February day in Toronto.

If I just survived a plane crash that would be the last thing on my mind.

Yeah I'd be fucking shocked but then crazily happy...

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#193

Post by hermannj314 »

genter wrote: post #86
userbinator wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a side note, it is crazy someone would take a selfie video before exiting a crashed airplane. It's literally once in a lifetime, and it didn't look like anyone was in serious danger after they realised they'd survived.

It's not unusual for people in a plane crash to survive, then die from smoke inhalation because the people in front of them took too long to evacuate the plane.

Per the referenced link, of the 35 serious incidents between 1983 and 2017, there were 3,823 aircraft occupants. In that group, if you either survived or died from smoke/fire, there is a 7.2% chance you died from smoke/fire.

I can't fine tune that number to determine you survived the crash, but then died from smoke or fire, since it did not easily differentiate pre-crash and post-crash fires.

I am not sure I would agree or disagree that it is usual to die from smoke inhalation after surviving a plane crash given the reason that people took too long to evacuate. It just feels like the upper limit of how many people die that way can't be that large since many of those smoke/fire deaths would not be attributable to that cause.

https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/data/Pages/Part121AccidentSurviv...

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#194

Post by nozzlegear »

kortilla wrote: post #186
karlgkk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is incredible amounts of regulation around plane, maintenance. From specification of parts, to maintenance schedules, even all the way down to purity and composition of the materials. This regulation is used to make sure that all airlines that operate in the US adhere to the strict and narrow requirements from the manufacturers and the safety testing done. Whether or not you or other people ideologically agree…

None of that maintenance regulation went away with the cuts and even if airlines started to cut corners on maintenance under the assumption they could get away with it, it’s not going to show up 2 days later. Implicating the recent cuts for this crash makes absolutely no sense.

> even if airlines started to cut corners on maintenance under the assumption they could get away with it, it’s not going to show up 2 days later.

When would it show up?

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#195

Post by cr125rider »

culi wrote: post #149
WalterBright wrote: post #118

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

Seems like it crashed pretty far away from any residential areas

It was on the runway

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#196

Post by [deleted] »

einhard wrote: post #22

I stitched together a small audio clip from LiveATC with both the Ground and Tower frequencies mapped to the Left and Right audio channels. It starts around the time the aircraft was cleared to land, and then skips forward to the moment the controllers realized the aircraft crashed. Here is a link to the .mp3 file (it's on Discord for now - I don't know if this is allowed, let me know if it isn't): https://cdn.discor…

[deleted]

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#197

Post by shazeline »

voisin wrote: post #116
alistairSH wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a report that it was after touchdown. I’m guessing wind, ice, or something else moved the plane off the centerline and into a crab, it hooked a wheel off the pavement, and cartwheeled. 100% conjecture at this point, just seems like a possible chain of events.

Toronto Pearson had wind gusts of 60km/h today. Edit: listing to the ATC audio I think they said gusts in the 30s (man do they ever speak fast and mumble! Enunciate damn it! Unique New York), which is markedly slower than what the Apple Weather app reported for Pearson.

It was gusting at 33kts.

33kt/hr * 1.15mi/kt * 1.609km/mi ~= 61km/hr.

The weather app was right. Just different units.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#198

Post by _moof »

WalterBright wrote: post #118

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

There absolutely are cameras recording the entire airport surface. The people in charge of them don't usually have "I should post this to the internet" as their first thought. Some airports do stream them though.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#199

Post by sitharus »

noirbot wrote: post #162
screye wrote: post #135

Lots of recent incidents with regional bombardier jets. First DC, now this. Have there been any recent with major commercial jets yet ?

I don't know much, but my guess would be that smaller planes are more prone to both of these issues? The DC problem was a collision between pilots who didn't see each other in time, which seems more likely with a smaller plane, and this seems to be because of wind/traction, which also seems like it would be more likely with a less heavy/large plane?

Smaller planes fly more often, and there's a lot more of them, so statistically they're more likely to be involved in any incident.

The DC collision was an accident waiting to happen, but that airport only serves single-aisle jets and runway 33 can only be used by the smallest of those - like the CRJ and Embraer model.

And in this case, it remains to be seen what caused the unexpected roll.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#200

Post by seanmcdirmid »

seszett wrote: post #55
crazygringo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cherry-picking to the extreme. Not only are most trains not Shinkansen, not even most trains in Japan are Shinkansen.

Only the Shinkansen (and TGV on my sibling post) can be compared to planes though. Local or IC trains might be compared to cars in the US.

Doesn’t the Shinkansen and other HSR systems get rid of at grade road crossings? Yes, without people actually crossing in the tracks, you’ll get less deaths that way.
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