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Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
291–300 of 1001 posts
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#292The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…
> Arguably his reprimand of Martin is a clear signal that he will never show Rust any favor That doesn't really have anything to do with Rust; but with Hector's behaviour. Threatening a social media campaign to out people is completely toxic behaviour. This is a long-term contributor who is perhaps a bit abrasive, not Jimmy fucking Saville. Other than that, it's not a binary yes/no question; no one is really against…
I'm usually very critical of how Torvolds treats the people around him and the culture he maintains but this is a rare case when I'm not really against Torvalds on this.
I've had to remove Hector's postings from my feeds because he just constantly bitches and complains about pretty much everything. He's capable, smart, and is doing more than anybody ever will for Apple hardware. But he desperately needs to Stop Posting. Without anybody he works with regularly to give him a reality check, I don't think he's going to change course.
I think Hector has some valid complaints about the contribution process to the kernel, I know. It fucking sucks ass and I've given up on trying. But screaming the way he does is counter productive to improving it
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always thought it was a pretty blatant "vibe check" to filter out people who are so uncomfortable with software that they can't customize their environment to create an email workflow that works for them.
Can't or won't? Surely what you just read would make you reconsider?
shrug maybe "won't" is a false positive, maybe a true positive, I dunno man, not my vibe check.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#294Damn, I liked watching the YT streams, above my head but yeah
Edit: I'm not super invested in the topic at hand I use all 3 OS's and only use Mac to develop with/for using MacOS
But kernel-level dev is hardcore and especially for open source, I've experienced that with the Pine64 devices which are almost worthless without the devs contributing to its software
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#295I don’t see why forking is not an option here. If the upstream maintainers don’t want to adopt it, the Rust folks can gradually rewrite the bits they want to and let the market decide. Use the Ballmer “embrace, extend, extinguish” model.
Linux is not a side project. It has thousands of developers being paid by chip and hardware manufacturers to ensure that linux works on their products. With the complexity of systems engineering, for a single driver, it takes months to build one from scratch. Plus, there is not enough expertise within the rust community to take on a project like the linux kernel to match the rate of development by many large corporat…
It started as a side project.
They may not match the rate of upstream development, but doing their own thing is going to be a faster path to their goal of Rust in the kernel than trying to convince everyone else to do something that they don’t seem to want.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#296Marcan certainly can be abrasive (I mean lol, so can Linus), but all the things he points out in the message below are 100% valid - I highly recommend for anyone here to try to contribute something even very small and logical to the Linux kernel or git (which use similar processes), it’s an eye-opening experience that’s incredibly unapproachable, frustrating, and demoralizing. https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2…
And Linus’ immediate reply https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wi=ZmP2=TmHsFSU... (not taking either side, just interesting to read the reply)
Definitely interesting to read both sides. I think they both present compelling arguments. There's a need to ensure stability with the kernel and avoid interference with outside forces. I suppose balancing that principle with eventual change is an inevitable difficulty.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#297The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…
> We all know his stance on C++, for instance.
Yeah, but that's because Linux was actually built with g++ for a few versions! The opinion was informed by experience, not an a priori thing. And it was likewise extremely controversial at the time. And eventually they rolled it back out and gave up.
Maybe that will happen with Rust too, or maybe not. But The Process, such as it is, is working today the same way it always has. They try stuff and fight about it, and eventually a winner is clear and a consensus emerges. And, yeah, there are losers, too.
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> Starting to think it's not just a coincidence. Is your theory that rust makes people dramatic? Or that dramatic people like rust? What other options are there, if not coincidence?
Probably just Berkson's paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkson%27s_paradox
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#299The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…
> an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds Exactly the point. IMHO the one and only thing that made Linux successful as a project is Linus' strong leadership - which has been criticized ad-nauseam over the years; yet it's the only thing that yields results. So in the specific instances (like this one) where he's not decisively, unequivocally, and even harshly saying "yes" or "no" to something, the community sho…
Agree
The more I hear about "community" the more I roll my eyes
It can be great at doing the work but it is awful at setting direction, evolving with the times and focusing on what's important
Going by another story on the front page, I have my long list of criticism about systemd but the "get things done" attitude needed to be commended
Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel
#300The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…
Rust is bad news for Linux.
No because its Rust, but because it's a bad idea to use more than one single language across the entire code base.
I also am surprised that Linus has not ended this folly.
If Rust wants a Linux kernel it should make one.