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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#61

Post by rich_sasha »

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #32
rich_sasha wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know to what extent this is true. A lot of criminals strike me as good at chopping off fingers etc but not computer stuff. There absolutely is a balance between Average Joe's right to privacy and privacy restrictions for fighting crime. Without undermining the former, I'm astounded how HN discounts the latter 100%. It is real.

I disagree. There should no compromise on my privacy ever. We are not (yet) in a dictatorship and I’m not a criminal. Why should I suffer because governments are incompetent?

In a situation where a criminal used Whatsapp and decrypting it is needed for the conviction, why should I suffer because of your absolute views on privacy?

I hold neither of the extreme views, and frankly I am baffled by anyone in either of them.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#62

Post by foundart »

The order does not seem to apply only to users in the U.K.

From the article, discussing the idea of Apple stopping offering encryption in the U.K.

“Yet that concession would not fulfill the U.K. demand for backdoor access to the service in other countries, including the United States”

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#63

Post by throw0101d »

See also "U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts":

> The law, known by critics as the Snoopers’ Charter, makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government has even made such a demand. An Apple spokesman declined to comment.

* https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/02/07/apple-e...

* https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology...

> The Investigatory Powers Act 2016 (c. 25) (nicknamed the Snoopers' Charter)[1] is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which received royal assent on 29 November 2016.[2][3] Its different parts came into force on various dates from 30 December 2016.[4] The Act comprehensively sets out and in limited respects expands the electronic surveillance powers of the British intelligence agencies and police.[4] It also claims to improve the safeguards on the exercise of those powers.[5]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#64

Post by Someone »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #22
newscracker wrote: post #19

Archive link: https://archive.is/3Pp0U I was wondering whether this is about Advanced Data Protection, which encrypts almost all data end-to-end on iCloud. It’s only later in this report that it gets into this key detail: > At issue is cloud storage that only the user, not Apple, can unlock. Apple started rolling out the option, which it calls Advanced Data Protection, in 2022. Before stating this, the article says:…

If they had some balls, they would just stop offering icloud altogether in the UK until they have appealed. Let's see how the judge feels when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason.

> when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason.

Governments are extremely powerful. They may issue a gag order (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order) that makes it illegal for Apple to do that.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#65

Post by fourfour3 »

cbeach wrote: post #60
fourfour3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - Reform UK is a far right populist party. They currently have 5 out of 650 MPs and are steadily gaining popularity - similar to the rise of other parties like AfD across Europe.

"Far right" suggests extremism. Could you name an extremist policy that Reform have proposed?

Several specific ones:

- Leaving the European Convention on Human Rights (joining the hallowed company of Russia and Belarus!)

- leaving the World Health Organisation

- get rid of net-zero climate targets, replacing them with fast-tracked approval for more North Sea oil & gas licenses and fracking

- public enquiry on “Vaccine Harms”

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#66

Post by donohoe »

Someone wrote: post #64
_Algernon_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had some balls, they would just stop offering icloud altogether in the UK until they have appealed. Let's see how the judge feels when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason.

> when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason. Governments are extremely powerful. They may issue a gag order ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order ) that makes it illegal for Apple to do that.

Gag orders affect information, not whether they continue to provide a service or not.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#67

Post by ben_w »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #22
newscracker wrote: post #19

Archive link: https://archive.is/3Pp0U I was wondering whether this is about Advanced Data Protection, which encrypts almost all data end-to-end on iCloud. It’s only later in this report that it gets into this key detail: > At issue is cloud storage that only the user, not Apple, can unlock. Apple started rolling out the option, which it calls Advanced Data Protection, in 2022. Before stating this, the article says:…

If they had some balls, they would just stop offering icloud altogether in the UK until they have appealed. Let's see how the judge feels when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason.

UK judges are not elected, and don't do things on the basis of what the public thinks.

This headline comes to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemies_of_the_People_(headlin...

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#68

Post by wkat4242 »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #37
wkat4242 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, the UK is one of the few European countries where iOS is bigger than android just like in the US. I work in mobile management and we see those a lot in northern Europe. Where they're scarce is in South and East Europe. Here in Spain no person has even tried to SMS me (which is the fallback for iMessage which I don't have) for 6 years or so :). I also don't have RCS enabled. It's all WhatsApp and Telegram.

Yes. Due to higher prices, iPhones are more popular in richer countries.

Yeah indeed.

The SE is also relatively expensive in Europe. And in Spain Apple seems to have completely removed all trace of the SE from their website. Strange enough. Didn't check other EU sites.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#70

Post by ben_w »

miki123211 wrote: post #41
rcxdude wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll catch the bad guys who don't know what they're doing, which is a pretty big percentage of them.

Yeah, this is likely not intended to catch the most sophisticated of hackers, but your average drug dealer / murderer / thief / paedophile. I don't know where the belief that all criminals are tech experts comes from; the popularity of cool-looking "encrypted" phones as opposed to actually encrypted apps like Signal should have long dispelled that myth. I'd argue that the opposite is probably true, people who think t…

> I don't know where the belief that all criminals are tech experts comes from; the popularity of cool-looking "encrypted" phones as opposed to actually encrypted apps like Signal should have long dispelled that myth.

I think it's a case of this: https://xkcd.com/2501/

People here work at the level of things like RowHammer, normal people don't think past the idea that a padlock icon on the screen makes them safe.

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