U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#41

Post by miki123211 » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:12 AM UTC

rcxdude wrote: post #17

kazinator wrote: post #8

The bad guys know where to find solid open source crypto for their cloud backups and whatnot. Therefore you know this is not about chasing the bad guys. It's about keeping the Average Joe under the thumb.

It'll catch the bad guys who don't know what they're doing, which is a pretty big percentage of them.

Yeah, this is likely not intended to catch the most sophisticated of hackers, but your average drug dealer / murderer / thief / paedophile.

I don't know where the belief that all criminals are tech experts comes from; the popularity of cool-looking "encrypted" phones as opposed to actually encrypted apps like Signal should have long dispelled that myth.

I'd argue that the opposite is probably true, people who think that crime pays are less smart and more impulsive than the average person, and hence less likely to think about things like this.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#42

Post by wkat4242 » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:19 AM UTC

card_zero wrote: post #21

spacebanana7 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. Apple could play hardball and threaten to withdraw from the UK market, with a propaganda notification like TikTok did. They could also appeal to Trump/Elon for help. Also the wider part of this order is that Apple would access to the international users data, including US customers, if I understand the article correctly.

They're currently antagonizing Trumpelon by refusing to halt DEI stuff, so they might not get any help.

I'm glad at least some companies stick to their values.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#43

Post by ksec » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:20 AM UTC

Just make TimeCapsule for iOS and iPadOS. With option to store it fully encrypted in AWS cold storage as Apple subscription. I want my data to stay at home.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#44

Post by globalnode » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:23 AM UTC

ggm wrote: post #6

Presumably the US government will have no compunction in using this to view US citizens private materials under UK government access rights, irrespective of US privacy law.

They'll share the data on US citizens with their US counterparts. Thats what the US and Australia do. That way govt's can claim they dont spy on their citizens. Their allies do it for them.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#45

Post by happymellon » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:23 AM UTC

ggm wrote: post #5

Rather than break the security promises it made to its users everywhere, Apple is likely to stop offering encrypted storage in the U.K., the people said. Yet that concession would not fulfill the U.K. demand for backdoor access to the service in other countries, including the United States.

Considering that the UK and Aus are both countries that share all their data with the US, I'm surprised at the naivety of the comments here about this.

This is a well worn path for the CIA gather dirt without needing to break any rules on monitoring US citizens.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#46

Post by echelon_musk » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:25 AM UTC

_Algernon_ wrote: post #22

newscracker wrote: post #19

Archive link: https://archive.is/3Pp0U I was wondering whether this is about Advanced Data Protection, which encrypts almost all data end-to-end on iCloud. It’s only later in this report that it gets into this key detail: > At issue is cloud storage that only the user, not Apple, can unlock. Apple started rolling out the option, which it calls Advanced Data Protection, in 2022. Before stating this, the article says:…

If they had some balls, they would just stop offering icloud altogether in the UK until they have appealed. Let's see how the judge feels when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason.

> the law does not permit Apple to delay complying during an appeal.

Seems absurdist. They have to implement the backdoor, appeal, and only if the appeal is successful can they disable it.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#47

Post by cbeach » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:25 AM UTC

I’m so ashamed to be a U.K. citizen and to have both legacy parties (Tories and Labour) staunchly supporting these horrendous breaches of privacy.

We have had a number of bad laws over the last ten years that have entrenched state surveillance and presumption of guilt.

The only party I can see taking a principled stance on civil liberties is Reform UK, whose policy document states:

> A British Bill of Rights

> Our freedoms must be codified and guaranteed. Never again can our entire country be locked down on shoddy evidence and lies. Our data and privacy must be protected. Surveillance of the public must be limited and those monitoring us held to account.

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/reformuk/pages/253/attachme...

Recent polls show Reform is currently the most popular party. So there is hope.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#48

Post by cbeach » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:29 AM UTC

sigwinch28 wrote: post #16

hunglee2 wrote: post #2

US tech needs to obey the laws of the country in which it operates. I am sure the demands of UK government are more than reasonable - and, as it is a democracy - as full endorsement of the people / users

I’m from the U.K. and I consider the government’s actions around digital privacy to be somewhere between incompetent and malicious.

Same here.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#49

Post by _Algernon_ » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:31 AM UTC

echelon_musk wrote: post #46

_Algernon_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had some balls, they would just stop offering icloud altogether in the UK until they have appealed. Let's see how the judge feels when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason.

> the law does not permit Apple to delay complying during an appeal. Seems absurdist. They have to implement the backdoor, appeal, and only if the appeal is successful can they disable it.

Apple can't offer icloud with encryption. It doesn't force them to offer the service at all afaict? Forcing a company to offer service at all seems like a gigantic judicial overstep IMO.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#50

Post by Digit-Al » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 10:31 AM UTC

sigwinch28 wrote: post #16

hunglee2 wrote: post #2

US tech needs to obey the laws of the country in which it operates. I am sure the demands of UK government are more than reasonable - and, as it is a democracy - as full endorsement of the people / users

I’m from the U.K. and I consider the government’s actions around digital privacy to be somewhere between incompetent and malicious.

Anyone who watched Monkey Dust in the 90's will suspect that the government is under the thrall of the Paedofinder General.