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America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

cnn.com

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Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#111

Post by almosthere »

psunavy03 wrote: post #24
butterlettuce wrote: post #16

Fellas, I got a question. Is it really safe to fly these days if this is now a national discussion?

It has always been and will continue to be more safe than driving to the airport. The fact that something extraordinarily safe is potentially less safe is a topic for discussion, but not at the expense of realizing the relative risks of everything else. Prior to the midair at DCA, there had not been a fatal (edit) airliner crash in this country since 2009, and there had not been a midair collision involving an airlin…

whats the current miles driven vs miles flown vs death rates of both? Not taking a side, I'm just curious here.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#112

Post by garciasn »

tayo42 wrote: post #101
robert_foss wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reagan taking away collective bargaining rights for ATCs seems to be what have led to the shortage and the helicopter accident last week.

Did reagan do anything good in hindsight? Everytime I hear about him he seems like the worst president until trump came along

Nominated the first female to the Supreme Court, Sandra Day O'Connor, and using his bully pulpit to pressure the Soviet Union about East Germany and the eventual dissolution of the USSR.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#113

Post by bombcar »

deathanatos wrote: post #81

"US ATC System Under Scrutiny" "Fatal crash brings attention to shortage" "There are simply not enough air traffic controllers to keep aircraft a safe distance from one another." Like, perhaps there is merit in arguing for more controllers or more pay for controllers, and perhaps that would lead to a safer airspace, but the attempts to implicitly tie the fatal crash to ATC in this case seems pretty poor form, here. W…

I’ll bet the final NTSB report lists as a contributing factor that there was only one controller that night; a second controller might have had the time to notice the altitude was too close, or vector the helicopter behind.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#114

Post by unsnap_biceps »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #103
trunnell wrote: post #20

To those who know more about ATC: is there any hope of automation?

I don't know more about ATC, but it looks like a field ripe for disruption and innovation. AI should be able to handle the coordination of flights without the downside of the delays and limitations of the human training pipeline, worker fatigue, and stress - all for less expense. The more I think about it, the more I feel like I could have something tangible at the end of a weekend or two - at least a prototype.

one that you would trust the lives of thousands of humans to every day? It seems unlikely we are anywhere close to a point where we can ensure that any AI won't hallucinate and cause an issue.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#115

Post by johnnyanmac »

mayneack wrote: post #102
runako wrote: post #4

Seems like a colossal error to have asked them all to quit. I wonder -- if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? The deadline they have been given to decide is Thursday; I have not seen any communication as to whether ATC (and TSA, etc.) will be operational Friday.

It seems they clawed back the offer or never gave it in the first place. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-exempt...

So what does that really mean for those he outright fired? They didn't "resign".no one who (stupidly) responded to that email to resign would have taken any effect anyway.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#116

Post by c-cube »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #103
trunnell wrote: post #20

To those who know more about ATC: is there any hope of automation?

I don't know more about ATC, but it looks like a field ripe for disruption and innovation. AI should be able to handle the coordination of flights without the downside of the delays and limitations of the human training pipeline, worker fatigue, and stress - all for less expense. The more I think about it, the more I feel like I could have something tangible at the end of a weekend or two - at least a prototype.

I sincerely hope this is satire (it sure is very HN in nature). "AI" in its current generative incarnation is prone to hallucinations/confabulations that cannot be avoided. In what world is that compatible with a job where a mistake can kill hundreds of people a few minutes or seconds later?

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#117

Post by grotted »

legitster wrote: post #77

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

I work closely with transportation dispatchers, and this applies almost word for word

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#118

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

We have planes moving hundreds of miles an hour being managed exclusively by audio channels.

Does this not blow anyone else's minds? This seems like a clear case of 'because we've always done it that way'. There's no way if a system was being developed today they'd say to hell with screens, lets just give them instructions over audio and assume they'll follow them to a T if acknowledged.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#119

Post by francisofascii »

harimau777 wrote: post #22

How much do they get paid?

Found this helpful site. https://123atc.com/salary Assuming it is accurate, the pay scale at an airport like DCA is $137K - $185K. SFO $180K-237K. Smaller airports are a lot less. Lancing, MI: $70 - 94K.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#120

Post by [deleted] »

tayo42 wrote: post #101
robert_foss wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reagan taking away collective bargaining rights for ATCs seems to be what have led to the shortage and the helicopter accident last week.

Did reagan do anything good in hindsight? Everytime I hear about him he seems like the worst president until trump came along

[deleted]
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