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America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

cnn.com

71–80 of 660 posts

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if half of the air traffic controllers took the offer to leave their jobs, do we have a Plan B? In theory you could do what Reagan did and tell the military to do ATC. Whether or not this is a good idea is another matter.

Reagan taking away collective bargaining rights for ATCs seems to be what have led to the shortage and the helicopter accident last week.

Kinda. Collective bargaining rights are great for employees but they do not automatically lead to better outcomes for customers/citizens/etc.

A good counter-example of ATC would be police. Police have strong collective bargaining rights, but mostly came at the expense of accountability and citizen oversight. (And also police departments are still chronically understaffed).

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#72

If you live in the Bay Area on the Peninsula, you'll be excited to know that the San Carlos airport and the FAA are in a pissing match over their air traffic controllers' pay, threatening to un-staff the control tower and leave that very busy airspace without tower control. The tower was set to go dark on Feb 1st[1] but it looks like there is now a temporary extension[2] keeping it staffed. Why these guys need to pla…

I still don't understand why KSQL is a contract tower and not a full FAA-managed tower.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careless and hamfisted taxing/banning of "private jets" can have the unintended effect of also killing light piston general aviation, flight instruction, and the whole pipeline of training the next generation of airline pilots. Flight training is almost always low capacity (one-on-one) so uncarefuly-crafted legislation could catch it in the blast radius. Piloting is already one of the more expensive careers to train…

You can make taxes specific, as in literally saying "a tax on non-commercially operated non-propeller driven aircraft with greater than 8 passenger seats". The prop exemption alone would clear most gen-av, but this kind of ruleset would also be very easy for the richies to bypass/game.

You could use max gross weight and/or number of seats > 6. Not a lot of flight training or hobbyist flying going on in Beechcraft 18s or Cessna 402s. And people who like private jets aren't going to step down to a 6 seater.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is childish.

No, it's making the people who have influence feel the pain of the problem so that maybe they'll fix it.

The bulk of the pain is going to be felt by normal people and working class. Best case scenario you will only solve the problem at the airports the rich and wealthy use and leave the rest of us out to dry.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#75
There's a lawsuit going on:

>FAA embroiled in lawsuit alleging it turned away 1,000 applicants based on race — that contributed to staffing woes https://nypost.com/2025/01/31/us-news/faa-embroiled-in-lawsu...

The guy behind it is quite interesting. Got 100% on his exams but told they were only hiring 'diverse' folk https://archive.ph/ixmFB

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#76
post #5

How many of those nerds who role play as air traffic controllers on flight simulations at home qualified to do it for real? How much extra training would they need?

It's an interesting thought. I wonder if VATSIM could provide a meaningful "pre-ATC" qualification. The people are already clearly interested/enthusiastic about the job.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#77
Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed:

- The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications

- The training and onboarding process is incredibly long, and turnover is high

- The fundamentals and technology of the job have not changed in decades, despite air traffic exploding in recent years

- Most people are just not capable of the amount of stress and risk associated with the job

- Seriously, it's a really freaking stressful job

I would argue an ATC employee is worth every penny, but I also don't think there is a magical amount of money where you are going to suddenly double your pool of candidates willing to do this kind of work. These people are already very well compensated, and at a certain point you are just going to be cannibalizing other talent pools.

The real need is new and modern technology that automates much of the mistake-prone, human-centric tasks. But nobody wants to risk introducing changes to such a fragile system.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#78
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to see the daily staffing levels over the past couple of weeks. If anyone knows where that could be found.

I couldn't find anything immediately definitive but this 2023 survey of federal workers was quite eye-opening: https://ourpublicservice.org/fed-figures/a-profile-of-the-20...

Good find. I'm curious what facets were eye opening for you? This is a ton of data that I find hard to 1-shot learn anything from. :(

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#79
post #75

There's a lawsuit going on: >FAA embroiled in lawsuit alleging it turned away 1,000 applicants based on race — that contributed to staffing woes https://nypost.com/2025/01/31/us-news/faa-embroiled-in-lawsu... The guy behind it is quite interesting. Got 100% on his exams but told they were only hiring 'diverse' folk https://archive.ph/ixmFB

> When Mr Brigida tried again to become an air traffic controller under the new tests, he said he failed the biographical questionnaire because he “didn’t fit the preferred ethnic profile”.

This dude leading the lawsuit is incredibly unreliable. The ATC biographical assessment didn't have any race-based questions - it was just a decision making questionnaire: https://123atc.com/biographical-assessment

It was a questionable assessment, but the idea that he failed it for being white is peak self-victimization.

The risk of DEI was fast-passing under-qualified candidates, or that they were misplacing their recruitment efforts. But the idea that they would not be filling necessary positions with qualified white people continues to be something of a polemic myth.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#80

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

> I also don't think there is a magical amount of money where you are going to suddenly double your pool of candidates willing to do this kind of work.

There would be more people interested in aviation choosing to be ATC than a pilot if our pay matched that of major airline pilots.

There are people going through the training and then quiting when they realize that can't get an opening in their hometown because that spot is reserved for a random person one week behind them in the FAA academy, and the pay won't make it worth moving away from their family.

There are more examples, and appropriate pay would fix most of them.

(Opinions are my own and not necessarily that of the FAA.)

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