Live data from Hacker News

Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

openeurollm.eu

241–250 of 289 posts

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 is generous. 5 is more likely. Also can't wait to get bombarded with cookie popup, ai bias popup, then ai accuracy popup etc.

The alternative is businesses are not held to account. I'd much rather have a cookie pop-up and GDPR notices than businesses have no guard rails against moves that are not in the interest of the user/customer.

Or hear me out...mandate cookie setting option in browser (no cookie, essential cookies, tracking cookies) instead of fuking prompt in every single site. That also allows me to not let sites ask and force essential cookies everywhere.

or block tracking altogether.

these cookie banners collectively wasted billions of hours for no gain.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're right. I like America, I want you guys to overcome this. Just remember that what most people think of when you say "fascism" is "literally Nazis". I don't think many people believe that's where the US is heading. There are far more possible flavors of fascism. The direction of the US is more like what Russia has, an oligarchy, with elements of fascism like concentration camps.

Yep, fascism will mold itself to the current culture and climate, and in the US right now that seems it will be meme ironic but real fascism.

Damn, metamodern fascism :facepalm_emoji:

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#243
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 is generous. 5 is more likely. Also can't wait to get bombarded with cookie popup, ai bias popup, then ai accuracy popup etc.

> ai bias popup It's all fun and games until AI models decide your type of people (blonde/brown/from that zip code/with that type of last name/went to that school/worked there in the past/have those facial features) are "bad" or "untrustworthy" or don't deserve healthcare or to be hired for that job or get a mortgage. "AI" bias has existed for as long as we have had "AI" in its various forms. Remember ML algorithms c…

Has nothing to do with bias popup. What next? Need to slap a "chocking hazard" label on small items? Keep out of reach of children on medicines? Oh wai...

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#244
Answering some questions:

- Good data is available already for the project.

- There are already previously existing models, it is not starting from scratch.

- Companies like Red Hat, Volvo, SAAB are part of the initiative thru partners like AI Sweden. So, this is a initiative to support the public sector and universities but also will have commercial output.

All that is public information.

> The project, which has been awarded the STEP (Strategic Technologies for Europe Platform) seal, leverages support from previous European projects and the experience of the partners and their results, including large repositories of high-quality data and pilot LLMs developed previously. The consortium commences its work on February 1st, 2025, with funding from the European Commission under the Digital Europe Programme. - https://sciencebusiness.net/network-updates/charles-universi...

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have much skin in this pissing contest, but I've lived in Europe, North America and East Asia. > What industry has the EU caught up in or maintained pace What industries is the US leading which reflects itself in improvement of quality of life of its citizens? Cause some things really don't matter in grand scheme of things.

EU has better quality of life on borrowed time. Yeah, some things don't matter in grand scheme of things. When your grand is larger, eu is in a bad place.

I’ve been hearing that about EU, China and Japan for the past 20 years in different degrees. Two generations were born and a lot of people have passed away in that period.

Even if EU’s QoL is on borrowed time, at least it has it for some time.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#246
post #171
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Ariane have a "pretty good track record". Most expensive bug of all time that crashed a whole rocket, because of outdated and wrong software engineering practice. They dont innovate, looked down on SpaceX, they have bet against Falcon, and lost the bet. Now they are betting against the Starship. > Honestly, I don’t think Starship will be a game-changer or a real competitor -- ESA chief 2024 https://spac…

If your metric of innovation is the amount of rockets exploded at debuts you shouldn't bring up SpaceX really. The EU had committed to a number of deep space and scientific instrument programmes spanning decades and seen them through to success. It operates its own GNSS constellation. It is second only to NASA. Calling it a failure is ridiculous.

Ariane 5 exploded with 4 satellites because they copy pasted code of the Ariane 4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_flight_V88

It's the most expensive bug in history. On the other hand, you are bringing up explosions of empty rockets that are launched as test, that's bad faith.

Look at the launch history and the Falcon 9 is simply more reliable than the Ariane 5:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9#Launch_outcomes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5#Launch_statistics

I did not said it was a failure, I said, they do not have a "pretty good track record". ESA burn through EU money, and wont care to innovate as long as EU provide them unlimited money and dont pressure them. It's an ivory tower.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#247
post #9

> The models will be developed within Europe's robust regulatory framework, ensuring alignment with European values while maintaining technological excellence As a European, that's practically an oxymoron. The more one limits oneself to legally clean data, the worse the models will be. I hate to be pessimistic from the get go, but it doesn't sound like anything useful will be produced by this and we'll have to keep r…

I've been using Mistral past week due to changes in geopolitics, and Mistral works absolutely great in English. I haven't bothered in my native language yet, but in English it worked great. Better than my first experience with ChatGPT (GPT 3.5), actually.

Ok I see we're very far from being on the same page.

Multilingualism in context of language models means something more than English, because that's what every model trained on the internet already knows. There aren't any I'm aware of that don't, since it would be exceedingly hard to exclude it from the dataset even if you wanted to for some reason. This is like the "what about men's rights" when talking about women's rights... yes we know, they're already entirely ubiquitous.

But more properly I would consider LLM multilingualism straight up knowing all languages. We benchmark models on the MMLU and similar collections that contain all fields of knowledge known to man, so I would say it's reasonable to expect fluency of all languages as well.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once registered as an "expert" on those EU related websites in the hope to be invited to an event where I could network. Next thing I know one of those Horizon 2020 project send me 20 proposals to evaluate and select by next week. Each of them was 50-100 pages long, mostly BS. I couldn't really do any real due diligence and I don't believe anybody did any on me. So just create register fake domain names to get a fa…

Where did you register yourself as an expert? Asking for a friend.

Oh man hard to remember. I can just tell you it was not on the official EU website. It was on a thematic one that probably doesn't exist anymore, something like "The coalition for the development of X in Europe".

What I also discovered is often let's say the EU wants to give 10M to 10 projects in a particular domain. Then a there are companies specialised in applying as a project and saying: our project is actually to subdivide this 1M into 8 times 100K and we keep 200K as a fee (I am simplifying but that was the idea).

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Point at a single project of this sort that had any tangible output that's still in use. Not sure what is your limiting factor (just universities + industry consortiums or explicit IT projects?). Graphene Flagship might be an example, with their research on Graphene they contributed to the foundation of more efficient batteries and solar panels, innovation in automotive and commercial products and so on. Clean Sky…

Graphene Flagship was an irredeemable disaster. €1 B pumped into research and commercialisation and the result is a DOA graphene industry in the EU, left in the dust by China and the US. Clean Sky Joint Undertaking was also a disaster that missed all its targets. As stated elsewhere, CERN is a cautionary tale - the LHC is a vestige of a time when Europe was an economic and scientific powerhouse. If the last 15-20 yea…

> Graphene Flagship was an irredeemable disaster

According to whom, based on which metric?

This is foundational material and chemistry research, with UK, Germany and Spain at the forefront for an industry which will probably need another 10 years to fully unfold.

For sure other China and US were able to invest more, but should the EU have not invested at all?

> Clean Sky Joint Undertaking was also a disaster

Also here, based on which metric?

The cost was split in half among the EU and industry players, and those companies (i.e. Airbus, Saab, Rolls-Royce, Safran, Liebherr, Thales) are all still at the forefront of their respective industries, despite competition from much larger markets. It's a sensible strategy to support them while steering aspects of their R&D towards a specific set of common goals for the EU.

Yeah, among others they had a goal of achieving a 50% cut in CO2 emissions just by improving fuel efficiency, a quite ambitious goal they didn't reach. But they set and co-funded the direction and achieved a 30% reduction.

They also had a goal of achieving 50% noise reduction for aircrafts, and ultimately developed concepts with up to 70% lower noise-production. Without such funding I doubt that such research would have even been conducted.

--

So yes, there's a much larger list of failed Horizon projects, fully agree. And many of them shouldn't even exist in hindsight. But it's research, it's supposed to be an uncertain field with uncertain commercial value. I rather have the EU fund 5 moonshots with 3 of them questionable than decide to not fund any research in Europe unless the commercial value is first proven by someone else.

There are areas I don't know how they would even be funded by a for-profit market without such initiatives, like the Rail Joint Undertaking which aims to develop and harmonize the European rail system across borders of EU countries.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#250
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, to be successful you need to be able to break the law and lobby the government? That is indeed the USA mindset, or should I say United Corporations of America? I'm happy EU is not USA.

That’s absolutely asinine and not at all what I said. The EU over regulates things like tech and that why they won’t be successful at have an AI tech scene. Over time, anyone good will migrate to the US or China where they can work faster and not have as many rules to deal with. A simple example is hiring and firing people - it’s much easier to make personnel changes in the US than Europe. As a result, US companies c…

From experience, regulation as an explanation for EU startup competitiveness is overused so much it's almost meaningless. Can you point out specific laws that you consider existential for startups?

What I find matters way, way more is two factors:

- Concentration of capital. The US has an ecosystem of wealthy people that want to put their money somewhere. This is good for startups, but can also backfire as we can see in the news.

- Unified market. EU is not a single market, it's several dozen markets with different regulations, different languages, and different cultures. You can't sell the same B2C product with the same marketing in Germany, Spain, and Sweden as easily as you can in California, Ohio, and Texas.

Post reply on HN