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Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

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Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#111

Post by CrimsonRain »

bayindirh wrote: post #67
isoprophlex wrote: post #57

I'm HIGHLY sceptical. The academics will love it, because they get money. But look at that list of parties involved. More than twenty parties supplying people; none of them will have this initiative on the top of their list of loyalties and priorities. Meaning, everyone will talk, noone will take charge, some millions change hands and we continue with business as usual. Instead this should have been a single new non-…

I can see that you're unfamiliar with how EU grants and how these project collections work, but I don't have much time to address this with great detail. As a person who's in this type of projects for a long time, what I can say is "it works", because people do not compete with each other, but will build it together. What I can say is, if they have came this far, there's already plans about what to do, and how to do,…

All talk. No show. That's EU.

I'll believe it works after they finally have one success

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#112

Post by menaerus »

bayindirh wrote: post #107
isoprophlex wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yeah uh you don't understand how this works. I don't have the time to tell you why, just believe me, it works. Oh also they give us money." I'm not entirely convinced...

Sorry, you know, I have work to do, so I can't spend an hour and write a blog post for you here. Plus, I'm not here to convince anybody. I'm just sharing my own experience. It's up to you to dig further if you're so interested in this thing. Have a nice day.

The criticism here is the system, not the people. And you seem to defend the system which has been proved to be inefficient and shady. You also seem to take this personally which you really shouldn't. People here are also sharing their views and experience and you have to acknowledge that it doesn't have to necessarily reflect yours.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#114

Post by input_sh »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #111
bayindirh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see that you're unfamiliar with how EU grants and how these project collections work, but I don't have much time to address this with great detail. As a person who's in this type of projects for a long time, what I can say is "it works", because people do not compete with each other, but will build it together. What I can say is, if they have came this far, there's already plans about what to do, and how to do,…

All talk. No show. That's EU. I'll believe it works after they finally have one success

Would you consider for example Firefox' completely-local translations a success?

Directly funded by Horizon, made by a consortium of 4 European universities, now a part of Firefox?

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#115

Post by sarusso »

bayindirh wrote: post #84
menaerus wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I largely see this type of collaboration as a very inefficient form of a distributed company (team) where members of that team do not have other incentive but to (mostly) collect points on research papers. There is no incentive to actually build a product in such a setting and there is no incentive to remain competitive since you cannot be fired, or penalized in some other form. And generally speaking, as an individu…

This is a Horizon grant, meaning: - There's continuous reporting, and money is not guaranteed. - You can be removed from the project by not meeting project goals on time. - (In this case) There are corporations which are planning to commercialize this thing. - There's a concrete and sound roadmap, and it's evaluated in a competition by an independent body and got selected. - Without a sound landscape survey, you can'…

"They result in deliverables"

I had a _so_ different experience after being involved in two of them...

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#116

Post by CrimsonRain »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #50
majormajor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU politics isn't like that. We are trying to work together, not kill each other. Oh? Been quite a while longer since there was war inside the US than war inside Europe. While it's been no time at all since vicious party battles in major European countries. Or countries nope'ing out entirely. But apparently fascists are only a thing in the US now? > creating a model that will match whatever current model is conside…

I don't have much skin in this pissing contest, but I've lived in Europe, North America and East Asia. > What industry has the EU caught up in or maintained pace What industries is the US leading which reflects itself in improvement of quality of life of its citizens? Cause some things really don't matter in grand scheme of things.

EU has better quality of life on borrowed time. Yeah, some things don't matter in grand scheme of things. When your grand is larger, eu is in a bad place.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#117

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

isoprophlex wrote: post #57

I'm HIGHLY sceptical. The academics will love it, because they get money. But look at that list of parties involved. More than twenty parties supplying people; none of them will have this initiative on the top of their list of loyalties and priorities. Meaning, everyone will talk, noone will take charge, some millions change hands and we continue with business as usual. Instead this should have been a single new non-…

> The academics will love it, because they get money.

Nice way to frame this.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#118

Post by closewith »

bayindirh wrote: post #107
isoprophlex wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yeah uh you don't understand how this works. I don't have the time to tell you why, just believe me, it works. Oh also they give us money." I'm not entirely convinced...

Sorry, you know, I have work to do, so I can't spend an hour and write a blog post for you here. Plus, I'm not here to convince anybody. I'm just sharing my own experience. It's up to you to dig further if you're so interested in this thing. Have a nice day.

> Plus, I'm not here to convince anybody.

Well, I think it's safe to say mission accomplished.

Your comments here are why entities have media policies. Probably thousands of peoples will have read your comments and the responses to them and many will have formed their first impression of Horizon from this thread.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#119

Post by murderfs »

input_sh wrote: post #114
CrimsonRain wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All talk. No show. That's EU. I'll believe it works after they finally have one success

Would you consider for example Firefox' completely-local translations a success? Directly funded by Horizon, made by a consortium of 4 European universities, now a part of Firefox?

They paid three million euros to integrate existing open source software into Firefox?!

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#120

Post by bayindirh »

menaerus wrote: post #112
bayindirh wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, you know, I have work to do, so I can't spend an hour and write a blog post for you here. Plus, I'm not here to convince anybody. I'm just sharing my own experience. It's up to you to dig further if you're so interested in this thing. Have a nice day.

The criticism here is the system, not the people. And you seem to defend the system which has been proved to be inefficient and shady. You also seem to take this personally which you really shouldn't. People here are also sharing their views and experience and you have to acknowledge that it doesn't have to necessarily reflect yours.

Of course, people don't have to agree with me, and I didn't take the issue personally, except that particular comment because of its tone and language.

There are other criticisms for the system, and I didn't either answer them, or answered more broadly. Again, what I have seen is the system was working for the parts I was in, and may not be working for the others, and I'm not defending the contrary.

Every coin has at least two sides, and I'm not a god. I can only comment on what I can see and experience.

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