Will they release the training data? That would really set them apart from other models.
Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
161–170 of 289 posts
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can see that you're unfamiliar with how EU grants and how these project collections work, but I don't have much time to address this with great detail. As a person who's in this type of projects for a long time, what I can say is "it works", because people do not compete with each other, but will build it together. What I can say is, if they have came this far, there's already plans about what to do, and how to do,…
Can you tell us about a project like this that worked?
They are not hard to find: The EU literally gives you access to all their projects in the CORDIS database:
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#163As someone who is in general skeptical of programs like this (and an European) there are 2 remarkable / timely things about this: - This project doesn't just allocate money to universities or one large company, but includes top research institutions as well as startups and GPU time on supercomputing clusters. The participants are very well connected (e.g. also supported by HF, Together and the likes with European roo…
What I don't understand is the big plan. Say, you manage bring about something that works in the lab on par with DeepSeek R1. What happens with it next? In the market LLMs are being improved continuously based on feedback - in terms of usage data etc. and new versions are being released multiple times a year. If we want to stay sovereign, we need a similar engine started in Europe, but I can't see how a research project relying on a walled garden system of supercomputer centres can start it.
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#164I'm HIGHLY sceptical. The academics will love it, because they get money. But look at that list of parties involved. More than twenty parties supplying people; none of them will have this initiative on the top of their list of loyalties and priorities. Meaning, everyone will talk, noone will take charge, some millions change hands and we continue with business as usual. Instead this should have been a single new non-…
> Death by committee.
This is how the EU works. It's the reason the EU has very little innovation compared to the USA.
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is a take that can only come from someone who is dependent on Horizon. No, I'm not dependent on Horizon Programme. I just look at what we did, the outcomes, and talk from that point. Maybe our sphere is one of the ones which deliver. I can't see the whole thing, it's too big to observe. Even if we're in the 5% which delivers, which is same with the startup scene, which is loudly applauded because it's an incre…
You are maybe in 0.005%. If project has even a presentation at the end it’s already being considered successful. And I thought it’s maybe Poland only, but Germant and France is the same (I’ve seen this myself, not heard from 3rd party)
It's not only Poland. I've had the misfortune of suffering through a couple Horizon projects, with partners from many European countries. Same experience as you had. "These are not serious people" sums it up.
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#166I'm HIGHLY sceptical. The academics will love it, because they get money. But look at that list of parties involved. More than twenty parties supplying people; none of them will have this initiative on the top of their list of loyalties and priorities. Meaning, everyone will talk, noone will take charge, some millions change hands and we continue with business as usual. Instead this should have been a single new non-…
I'm involved with IMI-BIGPICTURE, a similarly sized EU initiative (~70M funding). It's not that bad. Things will take a while to start moving but as long as all the players stay on the same page shit will get done. 10x slower than with a small team but some things can't be done in small teams
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
"It works!" is the only thing that will be visible on web page after hundreds of milions will be burned. I’m observing few of such „unprecedented” cooperation projects from EU funds. A lot of meetings, a lot of managers, plenty of very unskilled people creating mess and few names doing presentations so companies will believe everybody know what are they doing. Same from company side - they need being in those project…
Europe runs its space programme in this way and so far it has pretty good track record. There are more ways to build stuff than the worship of personality.
I don't think Ariane have a "pretty good track record".
Most expensive bug of all time that crashed a whole rocket, because of outdated and wrong software engineering practice.
They dont innovate, looked down on SpaceX, they have bet against Falcon, and lost the bet.
Now they are betting against the Starship.
> Honestly, I don’t think Starship will be a game-changer or a real competitor
-- ESA chief 2024
https://spacenews.com/europe-aims-to-end-space-access-crisis...
Meanwhile EU members are now launching their public project with SpaceX instead of ESA:
https://www.space.com/space-exploration/spacex-rocket-next-g...
https://apnews.com/article/nasa-spacex-launch-astronauts-pri...
https://www.esa.int/Applications/Observing_the_Earth/IRIDE_p...
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Deepseek's release has shown that there's no great risk in getting left behind. All the info is out there, people with skills are readily available, creating a model that will match whatever current model is considered frontier level is not that hard for an entity like the EU. For everyone here shouting that the EU needs to do something, be a leader, what have they lost so far by choosing to lead in legislation inste…
> They can use the same frontier level open source model as everyone else, and meanwhile, they can stay on top of harmful uses like social or credit scoring. We are dependent on models created by USA and Chinese companies for access to the technology that seems to be the next internet - while the entire world is accelerating hard towards protectionism and tariff wars. What could possibly go wrong
Yeah, this is exactly what scares me. But it also scares me that there's almost zero oversight on what USA and China are producing and the bias that could be embedded into these models by their creators...
I'm just not sure whether it's worse to be behind or to try to be in front by all means necessary.
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#169No name scientists will create an actual product.
Plain funny or just sad?...
Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe
#170I'm HIGHLY sceptical. The academics will love it, because they get money. But look at that list of parties involved. More than twenty parties supplying people; none of them will have this initiative on the top of their list of loyalties and priorities. Meaning, everyone will talk, noone will take charge, some millions change hands and we continue with business as usual. Instead this should have been a single new non-…
Can't talk specifics but I worked with a perpetually failing startup that spun out of a very prestigious university. The company was lined with way too many professors. Their burn rate must have been incredible, based on the huge investments they got. Their product was already "meh" before the AI boom made it utterly obsolete. They made huge promises but delivered poor results (in an area where 90% accuracy was basically useless). They never seemed to iterate on the product. Suddenly (like almost overnight) we got word that they were out of money and were likely to cease operating. At the 11th hour some idiot bailed them out, likely because of their academic credentials. (Certainly not because of their IP, product or output capability). Or maybe it was sunken cost fallacy. Idk.
Anyway, they're still failing along, burning through a seemingly infinite runway. Academia FTW!