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Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

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Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#141

Post by timeon »

isoprophlex wrote: post #96
closewith wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IOW, these kinds of projects are not parades for free money. No, they are subsidies for uncompetitive R&D teams. They are spectacularly inefficient, for all the reasons you mention. Teams specialise in Horizon funding, not actual progress. > Lastly, I don't get the grant money. It's just deposited to institution account. I have no monetary or material gain from this. Aha, so your team is funded by Horizon. What's t…

"Yeah uh you don't understand how this works. I don't have the time to tell you why, just believe me, it works. Oh also they give us money." I'm not entirely convinced...

Lot of comments here and in other topics are also just vague hot takes. But somehow you need to be served.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#142

Post by askonomm »

MR4D wrote: post #48
jpdus wrote: post #13

As someone who is in general skeptical of programs like this (and an European) there are 2 remarkable / timely things about this: - This project doesn't just allocate money to universities or one large company, but includes top research institutions as well as startups and GPU time on supercomputing clusters. The participants are very well connected (e.g. also supported by HF, Together and the likes with European roo…

The money doesn’t matter. The goals don’t matter. The people don’t matter. The only thing that matters is how much regulatory red tape is involved. My guess is that the paperwork will kill this. Read the announcement. Too much discussion about regulatory framework. In the US or China, all you need is some money and smart people. That’s a very low barrier to getting moving forward.

In other words, to be successful you need to be able to break the law and lobby the government? That is indeed the USA mindset, or should I say United Corporations of America? I'm happy EU is not USA.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#143

Post by ShareTheVista »

bayindirh wrote: post #67
isoprophlex wrote: post #57

I'm HIGHLY sceptical. The academics will love it, because they get money. But look at that list of parties involved. More than twenty parties supplying people; none of them will have this initiative on the top of their list of loyalties and priorities. Meaning, everyone will talk, noone will take charge, some millions change hands and we continue with business as usual. Instead this should have been a single new non-…

I can see that you're unfamiliar with how EU grants and how these project collections work, but I don't have much time to address this with great detail. As a person who's in this type of projects for a long time, what I can say is "it works", because people do not compete with each other, but will build it together. What I can say is, if they have came this far, there's already plans about what to do, and how to do,…

Can you tell us about a project like this that worked?

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#144

Post by egorfine »

sarusso wrote: post #8

They allocated €37.4 million [1]. As an European, I truly don’t understand why they keep ignoring that the money required for such projects is at least an order of magnitude more. [1] https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/pioneering-ai-...

These millions were allocated for business-class tickets and accommodations for the talking members of this task force. So, 37.4m is plenty.

I have zero doubt that nothing else will come out of this.

Source: have been working with major UN and international bodies on the software side.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#145

Post by askonomm »

thatguymike wrote: post #51

So for €52mn you'll get... a worse Llama? But don't worry, it'll be "transparent and compliant" which will make people want to use it. Very European.

What's with this American mentality that everything needs to always be the best, and if it isn't, it should't even exist? I know USA is alright with breaking the law, invading people's privacy and lobbying its government to the point where it's really the corporations that elect politicians into power, but why do you also need Europe to be the same way? I thought us Europeans have made it pretty clear we don't like your way of governing, so stop forcing it on us. I'd much rather use a less capable LLM if it meant that the LLM isn't driven on top of mountains of illegally collected data.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#146

Post by probably_wrong »

627467 wrote: post #95
microtonal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it just takes time to enforce the regulations. As an EU citizen, the recent regulations have already helped me a lot - a lot of companies provide data takeout now, it has become easier to remove accounts, many more websites ask specific consent, etc. Or even small things, our daughter's school has to ask specific consent if they can make photos and where they can post them (of group activities, etc.). Does everyon…

> our daughter's school has to ask specific consent if they can make photos and where they can post them The result of this is we don't see anything out daughter does in school because school decides to comply with draconian regulation by saying "fuck it". The same applies to having parents present daily: we don't touch the grounds of the school unless we make a formal request, we don't see the teacher everyday, we d…

Maybe it's because I'm not a parent, but what you describe seems to me less "privacy gone wild" and more "Europe vs Non-Europe".

The German parents I know wouldn't consider going to the school without reason (kids go either alone or as a group), nor would they expect their teachers to give daily reports. Not because of privacy rules, but rather because you're expected to grow up independent. There are of course regular reports, but talking to the kid's teacher every day would, I believe, get you classified as "oh, that parent". And then there's also the problem of vindictive divorcing parents who take their children away before the other parent shows up.

> we don't see anything our daughter does in school

If you're talking about photos of the children then I can't imagine a cost-effective way to ensure that photos of your children end up on the Internet while photos of my (hypothetical) children hugging yours do not. But perhaps you have a more precise example in mind.

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#147

Post by mandmandam »

esperent wrote: post #32
mandmandam wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There you have two teams determined to beat the other at all costs On the surface. It's all kayfabe though; heels and babyfaces. Just like with wrestling, the media know the score, and all the angles. After the match, they all laugh and joke together on the depraved billionaire owner's megayacht.

I don't think this is accurate, looking at it from outside. I mean, yeah, they both want to end up sitting on the billionaires yacht. But one side wants to do that while looking out over a fascist dictatorship. The other side has some weird idea that the billionaires will use their wealth to create a good life for everyone else too. Even though the term went out of fashion, it's still trickle down economics. These tw…

If you think Democrats were "determined" to beat Trump "at all costs" this last election, please, explain why they couldn't promise to stop arming Israel's genocide.

Democrat elites knew full well, as did the world, that 77% of Democrat voters wanted an arms embargo. Everyone who cared to look knew that in close battleground states over 3 in 10 Biden 2020 voters were saying that their vote could be affected by this, such was their feeling on this issue - understandable, given the daily atrocities livestreamed around the world.

Kamala's campaign had an easy win, a landslide victory for the taking. All they had to do was promise an arms embargo. Instead, she promised to keep sending bombs "no matter what"; even before her campaign page had a single policy on it. Does that look like they were fighting to beat the Republicans "at all costs"?

... How did Democrats hold Trump accountable for his insurrection attempt? Did that look like 'determination to win' to you? [0]

Did Blinken, Miller, Patel, Karine etc look or sound any less cartoonishly evil than the Trump goons? The things they said up there were mind-bogglingly cruel; staggeringly disrespectful of our intelligence.

The Biden admin censored millions of posts, pushed knowingly fake stories, physically removed journalists from the press room for asking legitimate questions, etc. Not super Democratic.

Sure; Republicans are much worse on some issues. But this corporate plutocracy didn't come out of nowhere. Despite the claims from the current Dem team, they do in fact take a lot of money from "bad" billionaires.

Even now, Democrats are crowing that Trump isn't deporting as many immigrants as they did. Because that's what's important right now??

Biden's admin pulled out all the stops to shut down student protesters - compare that to their response to Musk raiding the Treasury!

The two sides are not quite the same (neither are heels and heroes, ya know), but they are funded and owned by the same people. The difference is very clear when you see the unanimous support across the political and media class for things which the American people don't actually want - forever wars, environmental exploitation, tax cuts for the wealthy, full on genocide etc.

0 - https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-s...

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#148

Post by kubb »

627467 wrote: post #95
microtonal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it just takes time to enforce the regulations. As an EU citizen, the recent regulations have already helped me a lot - a lot of companies provide data takeout now, it has become easier to remove accounts, many more websites ask specific consent, etc. Or even small things, our daughter's school has to ask specific consent if they can make photos and where they can post them (of group activities, etc.). Does everyon…

> our daughter's school has to ask specific consent if they can make photos and where they can post them The result of this is we don't see anything out daughter does in school because school decides to comply with draconian regulation by saying "fuck it". The same applies to having parents present daily: we don't touch the grounds of the school unless we make a formal request, we don't see the teacher everyday, we d…

You guys expect to see the teacher every single day?

Re: Open Euro LLM: Open LLMs for Transparent AI in Europe

#150

Post by Vinnl »

closewith wrote: post #134
input_sh wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you consider for example Firefox' completely-local translations a success? Directly funded by Horizon, made by a consortium of 4 European universities, now a part of Firefox?

7 languages and a feature nobody to a rounding error uses? No, I don't consider that to be a research, economic, or technical success. Honestly, I'm not sure if you posted this is support of Horizon or against? The Horizon budget for 2021-2027 is €95.5 billion or ~€15 billion per annum. If a headline "success" is an unfinished implementation of translation in Firefox of a translation engine (Marian) built by the Micr…

I don't have the numbers at hand or know if they're even public somewhere, but telemetry shows that Firefox Translations is used a lot. Definitely on the list of successful new Firefox features.

(I'm a Mozilla employee, but I have not worked on Firefox Translations.)

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